graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 3, 2009 19:24:10 GMT -5
Hey cats and kittens, this is one of the episodes that I taped WITH commercials. (This time on WLKY in Louisville, Kentucky as I was stationed at Fort Knox then.)
Pre-Titles Pontiac Bonneville Ad for Local TV Show called Nightlife (Personal note here, Louisville did have a pretty good party scene, although I thought it was better in the early 80s)
Titles (The show was sponsored by Dodge) Dodge Shadow Pillsbury Microwave Cake Mix
First Break Discover Card Dodge Dakota Truck Listerine Lubriderm Lotion TV Show Ad: The Colbys
Second Break Buick Century Red Lobster Movie: Sudden Impact (Clint Eastwood) ABC World News Tonite promo Local: Kroger Supermarkets Local: Kingfish Restaurants TV Show Ad: Hour Magazine
Third Break Taster's Choice Coffee Oldsmobile Calais Xerorx Memorywriter Typewriter Studio Line by Loreal TV Show Ad: The Colbys
Fourth Break (A quickie) TV Show Ad: Jack and Mike
Fifth Break Dodge Shadow (Again) Bruce in Seagram's Golden Wine Cooler with tall blonde Russian girl
End Titles Voice Over for Good Morning America, Dynasty and Jack & Mike
After Titles Life Magazine at 50 ABC News Brief
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Post by jpen on Aug 4, 2009 17:56:33 GMT -5
Hey kids! I just re-watched and my head is buzzing...things are gonna get a little hectic around here, so I thought I'd post these while I had the chance. 1. Thinking back to the last Re-Watching: how do Maddie and David's views about belief and faith, as expressed in "In God...", play into this episode? 2. What do you think is the significance of the "David as a voyeur" scene in terms of the episode as a whole? What does it reveal about the state of David and Maddie's relationship? 3. Maddie thinks they should tell Father McD about Alicia because they have an obligation to him as their client. David thinks they shouldn't because it might "lead him into temptation"--so they have a moral obligation to keep the information from him. Do you feel like these reactions are consistent with what we know about Maddie & David? 4. David says Maddie "could use a little introspection." What do you think he means? And what about his own level of self-knowledge? 5. The scene in the church is about as angry as we've seen David (so far). Why does he take this case so personally, and what do you think he's really upset about? 6. At this point in the series, do you think Maddie is aware of her feelings for David...on any level? 7. Maddie and David share a lot of pretty revealing moments in this episode, though several of them are contentious. Have a favorite? 8. Any chance David was just pretending to be asleep, there at the end? ;D
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 18:43:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the time capsule, gray. Ah, gotta love the 80's...
Jen, great Q's! These definitely require the old thinking cap.
1. Thinking back to the last Re-Watching: how do Maddie and David's views about belief and faith, as expressed in "In God...", play into this episode?
In "In God...", we learn that David is a man of faith and that Maddie, well, is an unbeliever. IMO, she comes across more of an agnostic than atheist. After all, she has "considered the possibility". However, their belief systems definitely affect how each one approaches this case. For Maddie, Father McD is just another client who happens to be a priest. David, however, has a reverence for the priesthood. He finds Father McD's plans to leave the priesthood and break his vows distasteful and he certainly wants no part in helping him to do it. It's as if he doing the devil's work. It is interesting that David takes such a moral stance in this episode. It really hits a nerve with him and he wants no part of this case.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:07:34 GMT -5
Yes indeedee great Q's.
I'm rewatching now, so I will join in about 30. And yes, as usual, I think Cyb looks AMAZING in this episode. Of course, when doesn't she?
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
|
Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:10:21 GMT -5
6. At this point in the series, do you think Maddie is aware of her feelings for David...on any level?
Oh yeah. This is only one episode shy of Big Man on Mulberry Street, and a long time after the several fantasy smooches we saw in previous episodes. She knew that Dave was a catch by then…may be not THE catch, but at least not one who would be thrown back into the pond without at least giving it a shot.
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 19:18:04 GMT -5
2. What do you think is the significance of the "David as a voyeur" scene in terms of the episode as a whole? What does it reveal about the state of David and Maddie's relationship?
When I think of this scene, what comes to mind are David's words to Maddie in BMOMS when he accuses her of being on her "morally superior high horse". That pretty much describes Maddie in this scene when she chews David out for offending that "poor woman". So at the beginning of this episode, we see Maddie lecturing David on his behavior as morally reprehensible. Then we see the flip side of the moral issue when it comes to the case. David is disturbed by the thought of leading Father McD astray and is even more angry at Maddie for taking this case. Now it's his turn to get on that morally superior high horse. He is pretty rough on her in the car and in the church, preaching to her on the benefits of religion and her lapse in judgment.
As for the state of their relationship, I am not exactly sure what this episode reveals. It seems that even though they have become close over the past 2 years, they still continue to be surprised by each other's behavior and/or beliefs. Maddie was shocked to find out how "depraved" David was. She actually gave him a pass when she first found him with the telescope, thinking that he was truly sorry for his behavior. It was only when she came back into the office that she really went off on him. I think she also was surprised by the depth of David's feelings on religion and the issues of this case. David on the other hand, had a hard time understanding why Maddie couldn't see the problem in helping Father McD on the road to hell.
While they definitely have feelings for each other as demonstrated by their confessions that they would turn to each other "when push comes to shove", this episode shows that they still have some major hurdles ahead.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:31:02 GMT -5
5. The scene in the church is about as angry as we've seen David (so far). Why does he take this case so personally, and what do you think he's really upset about?
I happen to take this scene VERY personally. If you have probably seen in some of my other posts, I am, and grew up Catholic. My mother’s aunt was even a nun, Sister Mary Stephen. So I understand completely the vantage point David is coming from.
When I grew up, Priests were, in my eyes, God’s representatives on Earth. I was little, so I didn’t understand that they were men, subject to the same faults and failures as we all are.
As I gained years, pounds and a bit of experience (and I suppose some wisdom), I realized these faults. However I did, and still do, hold men of the cloth to a higher standard than the rest of us. I expect them to be able to resist temptation better than the average Joe….that’s what they are trained to do. Likewise when they fail, I am harsher on them than the guy down the block. Is that fair? Nope. But thems the way things are. Cops don’t break laws and Priests remain celibate. That’s the rules.
So I suppose, like me, Dave understands that priests are fallible, and doesn’t want to add anything to their burden that may cause them to stray, because he knows the scorn that will result if that happens.
This attitude is compounded by his perceived lack of understanding by Maddie. She thinks Father is just another client, and in some cases this might have been true. In this particular instance however, the results of Blue Moon’s detective work may result in him violating his vows…thus David being in such a quandary.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:36:44 GMT -5
As I am watching this show, it is cool how so many of the commercial breaks happen right after one of the principals says something prophetic. Neat.
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 19:37:32 GMT -5
3. Maddie thinks they should tell Father McD about Alicia because they have an obligation to him as their client. David thinks they shouldn't because it might "lead him into temptation"--so they have a moral obligation to keep the information from him. Do you feel like these reactions are consistent with what we know about Maddie & David?
Yes, they are absolutely consistent with what we know. Here we see David approaching this case as a man of faith - Catholic faith. That is the framework within which he is operating and which colors his attitude toward Father McD's request. Maddie on the other hand, views Father McD as any other client and has no bias toward his situation. She isn't fighting a moral dilemma so she handles the case rationally...thinking, not feeling.
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 19:46:51 GMT -5
5. The scene in the church is about as angry as we've seen David (so far). Why does he take this case so personally, and what do you think he's really upset about?I happen to take this scene VERY personally. If you have probably seen in some of my other posts, I am, and grew up Catholic. My mother’s aunt was even a nun, Sister Mary Stephen. So I understand completely the vantage point David is coming from. When I grew up, Priests were, in my eyes, God’s representatives on Earth. I was little, so I didn’t understand that they were men, subject to the same faults and failures as we all are. As I gained years, pounds and a bit of experience (and I suppose some wisdom), I realized these faults. However I did, and still do, hold men of the cloth to a higher standard than the rest of us. I expect them to be able to resist temptation better than the average Joe….that’s what they are trained to do. Likewise when they fail, I am harsher on them than the guy down the block. Is that fair? Nope. But thems the way things are. Cops don’t break laws and Priests remain celibate. That’s the rules. So I suppose, like me, Dave understands that priests are fallible, and doesn’t want to add anything to their burden that may cause them to stray, because he knows the scorn that will result if that happens. This attitude is compounded by his perceived lack of understanding by Maddie. She thinks Father is just another client, and in some cases this might have been true. In this particular instance however, the results of Blue Moon’s detective work may result in him violating his vows…thus David being in such a quandary. I am so with you on this, gray. I too grew up and am Catholic, having attended parochial schools through many of my educational years. Thus, it is very easy to understand David's point of view on this. Even though David does not lead an exemplary life, there are certain values and beliefs that are ingrained as a child and really never leave you. Btw, I love his description of confession!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:56:39 GMT -5
7. Maddie and David share a lot of pretty revealing moments in this episode, though several of them are contentious. Have a favorite? Lots of GREAT car scenes in this episode. I like the short one at 36 minutes when they are driving back from the Adamson’s. Dave tells Maddie that he wants to be cremated (which is NOT standard Catholic procedure by the way). As well as he thinks sex and death are two sides of the same coin.
Then the way she responds to his comments at the end, in the office.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
|
Post by graycav56 on Aug 4, 2009 19:57:58 GMT -5
I am so with you on this, gray. I too grew up and am Catholic, having attended parochial schools through many of my educational years. Thus, it is very easy to understand David's point of view on this. Even though David does not lead an exemplary life, there are certain values and beliefs that are ingrained as a child and really never leave you. Btw, I love his description of confession! Hmmmm. Gray just got a vision of lin in a plaid skirt and knee socks....
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 19:58:08 GMT -5
6. At this point in the series, do you think Maddie is aware of her feelings for David...on any level?
I think Maddie definitely has deep feelings for David at this point, but I don't think she has really admitted how much to herself yet. She follows David's advice and goes to confession - for whatever reason, even if it is just curiosity. She comes to the conclusion that they are very different and have to learn to stop beating each other up about it. That seems to be the only way that they can move forward. She also admits how much David means to her when she tells him that she would want him to be there for her in her hour of need (even if he didn't hear her). Yeah, she is beginning to open that door...
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 20:03:32 GMT -5
I am so with you on this, gray. I too grew up and am Catholic, having attended parochial schools through many of my educational years. Thus, it is very easy to understand David's point of view on this. Even though David does not lead an exemplary life, there are certain values and beliefs that are ingrained as a child and really never leave you. Btw, I love his description of confession! Hmmmm. Gray just got a vision of lin in a plaid skirt and knee socks.... Gray - you would not believe that laugh that burst out of me when I read this. I am surprised you didn't hear it up in York!
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Post by lin212 on Aug 4, 2009 20:07:35 GMT -5
7. Maddie and David share a lot of pretty revealing moments in this episode, though several of them are contentious. Have a favorite?
Well, there are several, but if I had to pick one, it would be the drive over to see Father McD. I just love when Maddie reveals to David that she used to see a shrink, but stopped. Then David asks her why - did she graduate? Did Dr. Ruth give her a diploma? Then there is the back and forth until Maddie reveals what exactly happened with the shrink. Cracks me up every time.
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