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Post by beesnbears on Oct 23, 2009 8:19:06 GMT -5
Ok, I suppose it's time to answer my own question(s), since my ego is pret-ty smooth now. I think Dave almost lets it slip because a)he sees Sam's familiar mug, which causes him to forget that there are repercussions, i.e., further questions associated with the revelation that they have already "met" or b)he figures putting it out there would be a way of easing into laying his heart on the table. To paraphrase jen, Dave plans to lay it down anyway, why not go in the side door? As for why Sam pretends the 4am visit didn't happen, you all have sufficiently--and eloquently (as always)--answered that one. But I believe Sam is in a sense helping Dave save face, because he seemed to show Dave some sympathy during the 4am exchange, offering twice to wake Maddie. But since David said twice "it's not important" Sam may have perceived this as "Hmmmm...the guy's embarrassed and wants to keep it under wraps." On the other hand, there is an ulterior motive judging from the way Sam looks at Dave as he says, "Nice to meet ya!": a look that implies, "Now's not the time, pal. Don't get me in trouble." Ok, I'll give ya that he seemed to show something at 4am!! Not sure I would call it sympathy...to me it was more of this thought process: "this guy knows Maddie...he has flowers and he's standing in the rain at 4am...I'll be the better man and offer to go wake her up, but he's trying to be the better man by not letting me wake her up...but I'm the one on the dry side of the door...I win this round..." See, I can read minds... ;D
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Post by jpen on Oct 23, 2009 9:02:29 GMT -5
Not sure I would call it sympathy...to me it was more of this thought process: "this guy knows Maddie...he has flowers and he's standing in the rain at 4am...I'll be the better man and offer to go wake her up, but he's trying to be the better man by not letting me wake her up... but I'm the one on the dry side of the door...I win this round..." See, I can read minds... ;D LOL, bees...and, can I just say, it's so great to have a discussion thread that lasts 6 pages again! This has been fun!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 23, 2009 9:06:14 GMT -5
Don't you think David has always kind of had that in the back of his mind...wondering if she would go for someone like him. Yes, and he certainly addresses it during the fight with Maddie in IACM: "You want some guy, went to a great school, great mug, nice manners..." Yes!! He still feels like he will never measure up! Can't help but think that if he hadn't parked himself in her bed and just waited for her say... on the couch... he would have definitely gotten some brownie points from Maddie...or at least maybe she wouldn't have threatened him with a vase!!
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Post by rose35 on Oct 24, 2009 10:37:32 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention one of the many scenes i really love is during the scene where Maddie tells David shes not cancelling her dinner date, its such a serious talk and they are yelling at each other and then you get a moment of comedy with Berts yelled YEAH through the door when Maddie tells David to take Mr Viola with him so he doesnt have to go alone,. Its shows just how much the office must have stood outside the door and listened to M/D conversations all the time. I LOL at the Bert part. ALso i beleive when David makes a comment on Maddies dress she plans to wear to dinner i think he's upset over it that she isnt dressing like that for him and knows this is more than just dinner with an old friend.
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Post by jpen on Oct 24, 2009 17:17:39 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention one of the many scenes i really love is during the scene where Maddie tells David shes not cancelling her dinner date, its such a serious talk and they are yelling at each other and then you get a moment of comedy with Berts yelled YEAH through the door when Maddie tells David to take Mr Viola with him so he doesnt have to go alone,. Its shows just how much the office must have stood outside the door and listened to M/D conversations all the time. I LOL at the Bert part. rose, I hope this post means you're feeling better! And I totally agree--ML was pretty amazing, to be able to inject that moment of comedy in the middle of a really emotional interchange!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 24, 2009 18:21:11 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention one of the many scenes i really love is during the scene where Maddie tells David shes not cancelling her dinner date, its such a serious talk and they are yelling at each other and then you get a moment of comedy with Berts yelled YEAH through the door when Maddie tells David to take Mr Viola with him so he doesnt have to go alone,. Its shows just how much the office must have stood outside the door and listened to M/D conversations all the time. I LOL at the Bert part. rose, I hope this post means you're feeling better! And I totally agree--ML was pretty amazing, to be able to inject that moment of comedy in the middle of a really emotional interchange! No kidding rose and jpen!! David is beside himself, emotions flying...whew!! Imagine all of the things the wobblies heard!! I think there is a page on the site somewhere that is devoted to a few of their "stories". It's really funny. And Virtual Moonlighting did an "episode" with just them, too! And rose, I do hope all is well, or better, in your household!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Oct 25, 2009 20:38:05 GMT -5
10. How would you characterize Maddie's reactions in the bedroom scene? What is she thinking at the end? Reading through, I feel compelled to answer this question as this scene still tugs at my heart strings in the case of Maddie's reaction IMHO, Maddie displays guilt as she has betrayed her love for David, I'd bet the farm she is thinking of him. Maddie longs for affection yet she is also longing for the familiarity of a controllable situation; having none in her "relationship" with David. Maddie is a creature of habit, therefore it helps her that she knows where she stands with Sam and where Sam stands with her (at least she thinks she does). Ultimately she goes along for the ride as she is, for the lack of a better phrase, "starved for affection" . It seems she realizes that all the rules of "how life should be" and "what love really is", has left Maddie feeling disappointed . After, maybe Maddie realizes that a relationship with the man she feels is "perfect" for her, isn't really perfect at all; Sam just doesn't do it for her like David. Maddie isn't laying there like a woman satisfied. I know her thoughts are of David; the sadness in her eyes exudes his name . That's my 2 cents, thanks for listening (I'm super late so this is merely an echoing rant but at least I have a little closure, lol) Since ;D
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Post by sinceifell4u on Oct 25, 2009 21:00:21 GMT -5
Here's a question (3-parter): It's obvious David does not want Maddie to know about him being on her doorstep at 4am. Why do you think he almost lets slip that he and Sam have already met? Why do you think Sam pretends they haven't? Is Sam helping Dave save face, or does he have an ulterior motive? A. I don't necessarily think David doesn't want Maddie to know but its clear that she doesn't because she would have confronted him about it. Maybe for the most part it is embarrassment of how he assumed the worst. B. Oh in a few words, seriously Sam sux C. He had an ulterior motive from the time he saw David at the front door. It is not his house and he answered the door, ok, he didn't want to wake her but why wouldn't Sam tell her the next morning that David came by? Unless...Sam had every intention of renewing a relationship with Maddie from the get-go; his visit was more than "two old friends catching up". I mean David had flowers at 4:30 am, in the pouring rain...if that aint love, what is? Sam did some major jock blocking (if you get my drift). I never liked Sam's character because of his sneakiness, his subtle manipulation was so Alexis Carrington! This "perfect" yet insecure guy is playing a game with the hearts of our beloved characters for his own gain. UGHHHH
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Post by sinceifell4u on Oct 25, 2009 21:48:33 GMT -5
7. The Dinner Scene: Ah, the undercurrents...the assumptions...the interruptions! Have a ball with this one--here's just a few questions to get you started: a) Do you think Maddie knows what David wants to tell her? b) Why does Sam bring up Maddie's fear of flying? c) Imagine, for a moment, that David did not get drunk and make an idiot of himself. Would the outcome of the evening have been the same? 8. What is the purpose of the gas station altercation? These all have relevance to my answer so I'll just essay it. As Marple so cleverly pointed out, this is basically a silent "gun" fight between the two men. Maddie knows it because she is utterly uncomfortable sitting between her past and her now; beginning to understand that one of these men may be her future. David becoming extremely inebriated probably gave Maddie the clue she was looking for as to David's dinner crashing. Maddie knows it has to be an emotional entanglement because he is not the most forthcoming personality. Sadly, even if David had kept his composure and his sobriety, I don't think the night would have ended differently; without his admission to loving Maddie. Had David found a way to let her know, then and only then would she have put off sleeping with Sam; although she would have still left with him. The gas station altercation was a sort of bonding for David & Sam. I also see it as a precursor to the "barrage in the garage" though they actually get a chance to take out some of their animosity towards each other on Goliath. David's comment about Sam after getting to his apartment is the last punch in their night of passively aggressive cowardice activity.
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Post by diane on Oct 27, 2009 18:06:48 GMT -5
OK....I'm a week late...and I am not going to get to rewatch tonight. So I'd better catch up!!!
1. This is the first of three episodes in which Moonlighting pokes fun at its own shortcomings (and critics thereof). Are these intros time-wasters for you, or integral parts of the episodes?
The business of Moonlighting and what makes it the show it is, is its uniqueness. There is not much, especially the devices that were ground=breaking in the 80s, that were not integral to the show to me.
2. David, in the opening scene: Is he really thinking that Maddie "got horizonty" with Mr. Anonymous? (For fun: What other explanations do you think he could dream up for Sam's presence at Maddie's house?)
I don't think there is a question that David thought Maddie had made good on her promise to pry the rust off her chastity belt....a misconception that wasn't cleared up till the next day....or was it a misconception??
3. Why does David want to refuse the Johnson case?
David is thrown for a loop....he's seeing Maddie and her character in a whole different light, and he's not liking what is now good for the goose
More in a minute...
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Post by diane on Oct 27, 2009 18:18:56 GMT -5
In "Yours, Very Deadly," Maddie laments: "Nothing makes sense anymore...what's happened to all the rules? What's happened to romance?" Yet her response to the Johnson case is: "Maybe a thing like being faithful isn't that easy to define--maybe it's not so black & white." What has changed for her in the course of this season?
Well...let's see. Maddie in her mind is in an impossible situation....she is in love with a guy that is all wrong for her...a guy who she thinks is lewd, crude and unromantic. So fate, in the form of the perfect Mr. Crawford, steps into her life.....she, as happens to many women of her age, is feeling she needs to move on,...guess the word I am looking for is "settle".....Sam seems the perfect solution to her issues.....which throws her for a loop and causes her to start questioning just about everything.
5. David with Maddie, and Agnes with Bert: who really looks out/looks after whom, and who is willing to take risks to do so?
Both 50/50 situations, I think, but Agnes and Bert are soooooo much better at it, don't cha think?
6. Why is Maddie so insistent on keeping her date with Sam? Do you think she understand that David is jealous?
I'm not so sure that Maddie at this point understands how jealous David is, but more importantly, she doesn't care. She's still mad from the night before.....and she is considering Sam as a solution to her problems.........1.. What to do with her life? and 2. How to resolve her feelings about David?.
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Post by diane on Oct 27, 2009 18:35:10 GMT -5
7. The Dinner Scene: Ah, the undercurrents...the assumptions...the interruptions! Have a ball with this one--here's just a few questions to get you started:
a) Do you think Maddie knows what David wants to tell her?
I have always felt that Maddie has a pretty good idea of what David is going to say...but is terrified to hear it...and is very grateful that Sam returns so that she doesn't have to deal with it. Even if she is having second thoughts, David's getting drunk at dinner serves to set up such a bad comparison with Sam that it reinforces where she moves her "allegiance"
b) Why does Sam bring up Maddie's fear of flying?
He brings it up to reinforce their history to David, and to paint the picture that they have been in a relationship, and have been intimate.
As a writer's choice, I think it is a great device to show a chink in Maddie's armor, as many experts agree that the major cause of fear of flying is a person's fear of losing control.
c) Imagine, for a moment, that David did not get drunk and make an idiot of himself. Would the outcome of the evening have been the same?
I still think the evening would have been disastrous...David just made it a little easier for Sam. But without the wine, I think Sam would have kept pounding his obviously superior traits -- career, money, former relationship...and our David would have gotten beaten down.......not because of his own ego, but because I think he was starting to see Maddie's reactions.
8. What is the purpose of the gas station altercation? [/quote]
I think the gas station scenario was designed so that David would need to owe Sam something.......and at least to see that Sam wouldn't leave him in the lurch.
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Post by diane on Oct 27, 2009 18:46:17 GMT -5
Saving the biggies for last... 9. At what point does Maddie decide she's going to sleep with Sam...and why?
I think she proabably makes a concious decision while sitting waiting for Sam to come back to the house. The dinner has reassured her that David is wrong for her.......and sleeping with Sam is the next step in deciding where her life is going to go.
10. How would you characterize Maddie's reactions in the bedroom scene? What is she thinking at the end?
Resignation.....I think she knows what her life is going to be with Sam.......(not really seeing any wild and exciting time was had there with the neatness of the sheets...haha). She knows the decision she makes is going to force a choice.
11. OK, time to confront the blue-eyed elephant in the room: Sam. What are your impressions of him, based on this episode?
Gotta tell you...I am the original Sam hater, and have had this argument for many years, with many different opponents. In spite of the fact that GGC has told me in person that Sam was a good guy, I respectfully disagree. I think he is spiteful and selfish...traits that are more apparent in later episodes.
But when he deliberately overtalks David to keep his previous night's visit secret, that lets me know that he knows David is a worthy opponent and that he will do whatever is in his power to put him out of the picture.
Boo hiss Sam!!
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Post by diane on Oct 27, 2009 18:56:27 GMT -5
I too had some issues last night...computer and being challenged by what actually could fit in my suitcase versus what actually needed to GO into it. I love all the questions......thanks gals......and I promise to get to them tomorrow during my recovery from jet lag day~ diane Diane!! The Phillies are in YOUR town tonight...where are ya' goin'?! Surely you are wearing your favorite Phillies t-shirt in LA! How to get to the former Texas Ranger Padilla: Hit the ball (he hates that...) and don't let him hit you! Bees....totally missed this until today! Gotta tell you, I was not a real hit walking through the L.A. airport last Wednesday in my Phillies hat and t-shirt. So glad they won...although I did miss my chance to attend game 6 here in LA. Looking for your support tomorrow against the Yankees!!!!
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Post by lin212 on Oct 27, 2009 19:41:40 GMT -5
Diane!! The Phillies are in YOUR town tonight...where are ya' goin'?! Surely you are wearing your favorite Phillies t-shirt in LA! How to get to the former Texas Ranger Padilla: Hit the ball (he hates that...) and don't let him hit you! Bees....totally missed this until today! Gotta tell you, I was not a real hit walking through the L.A. airport last Wednesday in my Phillies hat and t-shirt. So glad they won...although I did miss my chance to attend game 6 here in LA. Looking for your support tomorrow against the Yankees!!!! diane, I spent some time in Philly last Friday. I was really impressed by the team spirit everywhere. The excitement was palpable!
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