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Post by jpen on Oct 31, 2009 23:42:36 GMT -5
9. In this episode, we get to see the situation from Maddie's point of view. How do you feel after experiencing Maddie's inner struggle?
Well, I think the moment that really brings it home for me is when she's in her office, talking to Agnes: "You know, Miss DiPesto, they're both really terrific." The tears in her eyes, and her look after Agnes leaves, just say volumes about how torn she really is; coming on the heels of both her not-so-satisfying night with Sam, and her not-so-satisfying talk with David, she just doesn't know what to do.
There's a vulnerability in that moment that we don't get to see very often with Maddie, and it's achingly convincing. Between that and the trunk scene, it makes this one of my very favorite episodes.
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
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Post by witness on Nov 1, 2009 0:14:35 GMT -5
7. Discuss the significance of the trunk scene (sigh). Is it a turning point in their relationship? Does it tell David what he wants to know? I believe it is definitely a turning point, just as David eventually eliciting Maddie's confession was in Blonde on Blonde. Each one has spent the past couple of days trying to read the other, and finally they come to a mutual understanding: that they are in care. Because Maddie has ditched her bedmate at 4am to determine what's in that muddy brown noggin of his, David knows he's still in the running. 8. In the words of an oldie but goodie, "if you want to know if he loves you so, it's in his kiss". What does Maddie learn from David's kiss? Some have referred to the garage kiss as their "first real kiss." No way. That was a kiss fueled by fear, confusion, anguish, concern, etc. and was completely unexpected, spontaneous. The trunk kiss was the first real one. David pauses and looks at Maddie, checking for her green light before leaning in. There is something so pure and innocent about the kiss. Maddie learns from it the physical manifestation of David's true romantic nature. She also is reminded that he does know her and understands what her needs are. Aside from the kiss, I love the way David gently smooths Maddie's hair back right before he says "You look awful." These are treasured moments, when we see Maddie so girlish and vulnerable.
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Post by rose35 on Nov 1, 2009 22:55:46 GMT -5
Just rewatched the TRUNK scene LOL Yup its so amazing! I was just wondering why do you think David just sat there when Maddie started to cry, why didnt he put his arms around her to comfort her without being asked, do you think he wanted her to ask him? Also do you think David never had Maddie come over his Apartment ever in those 2 1/2 years they worked together cause he was embarassed of his place? Just wondering like us essed fans do sometimes LOL
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 2, 2009 9:01:36 GMT -5
Just rewatched the TRUNK scene LOL Yup its so amazing! I was just wondering why do you think David just sat there when Maddie started to cry, why didnt he put his arms around her to comfort her without being asked, do you think he wanted her to ask him? Also do you think David never had Maddie come over his Apartment ever in those 2 1/2 years they worked together cause he was embarassed of his place? Just wondering like us essed fans do sometimes LOL You know, I very much empathize with Dave in this scene. I had a lady friend from Cherry Hill..which was an upscale suburb of Philadelphia. She was from a well to do family. I didn't want to bring her back to my little place either. What furniture I had (except for my TV and my stereo) was particle board to the max and she was used to high end Chippendale. I was afraid that if she saw how "low rent" I was, well that would spell doom for any chances for me. To be honest, that is what spelled the end of our chances. I never felt that I could measure up to what she was used to, so I never pursued it. Silly Tony. As it turned out I did pretty well. I just ran into her the other month and we had a long discussion. Not surprisingly, she let me know that my feelings of fiscal inadequacies were totally unfounded....that it didn't matter one red cent that I was just starting out....she KNEW that I would have been successful and she wanted to just come along for the ride! As for Dave not pulling Maddie in close, I think he didn't want to seem to be taking advantage of the situation, and waited for her to invite his comfort. The same reason he immediately said his bedroom comment was a joke. Dave was being VERY real here. You can tell that I love this scene....no?
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 2, 2009 14:14:23 GMT -5
Gray...you can sit on my...our trunk anytime!!
I am convinced more than ever now that Dave never felt he had a real chance with Maddie after Sham showed up...so much self-doubt...and vulnerable until the slapping...
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Post by lin212 on Nov 2, 2009 14:16:48 GMT -5
Just rewatched the TRUNK scene LOL Yup its so amazing! I was just wondering why do you think David just sat there when Maddie started to cry, why didnt he put his arms around her to comfort her without being asked, do you think he wanted her to ask him? Also do you think David never had Maddie come over his Apartment ever in those 2 1/2 years they worked together cause he was embarassed of his place? Just wondering like us essed fans do sometimes LOL Yeah, I think he was embarrassed. Reminds me of the discomfort he (and we) feel when Sam asks him where he went to school. As for just sitting there, I agree with gray that he didn't want to take advantage of the situation. I also think that his gut had been wrenching the past couple of days and he wanted to make sure he knew why Maddie suddenly appeared at his door. He let her take the lead on this one.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 2, 2009 14:21:43 GMT -5
Gray...you can sit on my...our trunk anytime!! I am convinced more than ever now that Dave never felt he had a real chance with Maddie after Sham showed up...so much self-doubt...and vulnerable until the slapping... Oh, Bees...thank goodness this is a FAMILY forum or I would have had a blast with that comment!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 2, 2009 14:32:45 GMT -5
Gray...you can sit on my...our trunk anytime!! I am convinced more than ever now that Dave never felt he had a real chance with Maddie after Sham showed up...so much self-doubt...and vulnerable until the slapping... Oh, Bees...thank goodness this is a FAMILY forum or I would have had a blast with that comment! OMG!! I really left myself wide open for that one!! ;D And as far as FAMILY forum goes...you just make sure you keep your sheets where they need to be!!
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Post by jpen on Nov 2, 2009 15:45:29 GMT -5
As for Dave not pulling Maddie in close, I think he didn't want to seem to be taking advantage of the situation, and waited for her to invite his comfort. The same reason he immediately said his bedroom comment was a joke. Dave was being VERY real here. You can tell that I love this scene....no? Great point, gray. I hadn't connected the bedroom joke with his reticence, but I think you're right. They're both being real--one of the only times we see them together, without agendas or bluff facades. As for Young Tony's fiscal insecurites ...it's amazing how often we trip ourselves up, isn't it? Whether it's about money or education or physical attributes or some vague notion of "Cool," seems like we get in our own way far more often than we're blocked by other people. Part of growing up, I guess. (Well, speaking for myself, anyway. The rest of you might have had rockin' self-esteem in your twenties! ) Anyway, David and Maddie feel so real to me, I think, largely because of moments like this...
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Post by rose35 on Nov 2, 2009 18:07:22 GMT -5
Just rewatched the TRUNK scene LOL Yup its so amazing! I was just wondering why do you think David just sat there when Maddie started to cry, why didnt he put his arms around her to comfort her without being asked, do you think he wanted her to ask him? Also do you think David never had Maddie come over his Apartment ever in those 2 1/2 years they worked together cause he was embarassed of his place? Just wondering like us essed fans do sometimes LOL Yeah, I think he was embarrassed. Reminds me of the discomfort he (and we) feel when Sam asks him where he went to school. As for just sitting there, I agree with gray that he didn't want to take advantage of the situation. I also think that his gut had been wrenching the past couple of days and he wanted to make sure he knew why Maddie suddenly appeared at his door. He let her take the lead on this one. Thanks guy for some more insight, i think you are right, he was probably afraid of how to handle the situation and not know how she would react, so he waited for her to make the first move so to speak. SIGH!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 2, 2009 18:09:49 GMT -5
Oh, Bees...thank goodness this is a FAMILY forum or I would have had a blast with that comment! OMG!! I really left myself wide open for that one!! ;D And as far as FAMILY forum goes...you just make sure you keep your sheets where they need to be!! OMG too funny! You guys really know how to make this group here laugh!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 2, 2009 18:13:08 GMT -5
As for Dave not pulling Maddie in close, I think he didn't want to seem to be taking advantage of the situation, and waited for her to invite his comfort. The same reason he immediately said his bedroom comment was a joke. Dave was being VERY real here. You can tell that I love this scene....no? Great point, gray. I hadn't connected the bedroom joke with his reticence, but I think you're right. They're both being real--one of the only times we see them together, without agendas or bluff facades. nyway, David and Maddie feel so real to me, I think, largely because of moments like this... So do you think he was being serious about the "There's always the bedroom " to see her reaction and well she reacted the way he expected i guess and he quickly says "Bad joke". I believe he wished it so much in his heart to be with her like that but knew she wasnt ready then or wondered if she ever would be now with Sam in the picture. I love these discussions!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 2, 2009 19:48:47 GMT -5
So do you think he was being serious about the "There's always the bedroom " to see her reaction and well she reacted the way he expected i guess and he quickly says "Bad joke". I believe he wished it so much in his heart to be with her like that but knew she wasnt ready then or wondered if she ever would be now with Sam in the picture. I love these discussions! rose I think he is just making an adolescent type joke like he usually does in weird situations. Remember he told her when she first got there that he generally does most of his entertaining in the bedroom. He's refers to that when she says "what are we going to do?" However, I do agree with gray that he knows this is a very serious situation and quite possibly a crossroad for Maddie and it would serve him well to tread lightly. But, I do agree with you Rose, he has wanted her for a very long time!!
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Post by jpen on Nov 2, 2009 22:33:52 GMT -5
So do you think he was being serious about the "There's always the bedroom " to see her reaction and well she reacted the way he expected i guess and he quickly says "Bad joke". I believe he wished it so much in his heart to be with her like that but knew she wasnt ready then or wondered if she ever would be now with Sam in the picture. I love these discussions! rose I think he is just making an adolescent type joke like he usually does in weird situations. Remember he told her when she first got there that he generally does most of his entertaining in the bedroom. He's refers to that when she says "what are we going to do?" However, I do agree with gray that he knows this is a very serious situation and quite possibly a crossroad for Maddie and it would serve him well to tread lightly. But, I do agree with you Rose, he has wanted her for a very long time!! Great question, rose, and I agree with bees and gray--David makes one of his typical "suggestive remarks," but then realizes very quickly that it's not gonna fly, and backs off--which of course is not typical, and underscores his sensitivity to her. But if they had had the chance to kiss again...maybe he would've repeated the offer! ;D
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 3, 2009 0:56:14 GMT -5
9. In this episode, we get to see the situation from Maddie's point of view. How do you feel after experiencing Maddie's inner struggle?Well, I think the moment that really brings it home for me is when she's in her office, talking to Agnes: "You know, Miss DiPesto, they're both really terrific." The tears in her eyes, and her look after Agnes leaves, just say volumes about how torn she really is; coming on the heels of both her not-so-satisfying night with Sam, and her not-so-satisfying talk with David, she just doesn't know what to do. There's a vulnerability in that moment that we don't get to see very often with Maddie, and it's achingly convincing. Between that and the trunk scene, it makes this one of my very favorite episodes. How on point, jen.
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