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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2009 19:21:30 GMT -5
Does this mean that we now have to send Gray our picture??!! Yay for our Veteran's and pray that Ft. Hood will once again heal in time.
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Post by lin212 on Nov 11, 2009 19:24:47 GMT -5
Gosh, a girl puts in a hard day at the office and comes home to find all these wonderful comments and insights. It's like being late for the party. Well, everything everyone said - ditto from me, especially thanks to diane for sharing so many scripted scenes.
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Post by lin212 on Nov 11, 2009 19:39:10 GMT -5
I've got one question that I am surprised has not come up...... What is your take on the "safety" conversation, especially since it will so soon be proven that Maddie wasn't "safe" at all? I love this scene and think it was a great way to end the season. I'm thinking that the "safety" conversation was created to lead into the events that they would have to deal with in Season 4. After considering the pros and cons, I've decided that Maddie was telling David a big fib when she said that all was safe. She would never admit that she didn't have everything under control, so she had to save face and act cool about the whole thing. Perfect!
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 19:39:17 GMT -5
Regarding the scene with Mr. Kendall: I hadn't realized the importance of this scene until I rewatched this time (confession: usually when I "watch" this ep I fast-forward right to the good stuff...you know what I'm talking about! ). But Mr. Kendall is really in the role of devil's advocate here--he takes Maddie's position, and she finds herself defending the importance of true love over "controlling the realities"...reversing her earlier reliance on the "facts" to head straight for that region just south of the brain. The fact that the scene in David's office is back-to-back with this one just underlines how confused Maddie really is. This episode is structured so brilliantly!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 11, 2009 19:39:40 GMT -5
Does this mean that we now have to send Gray our picture??!! Yay for our Veteran's and pray that Ft. Hood will once again heal in time. OMG GRAY and DIANE? WOWEE! AWESOME! Looks so real! Gray you are just just ,i am at a loss for words! LOL Hope Diane get a big kick out of it! Great!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2009 19:57:04 GMT -5
I think the safety issue also has to do with the 80's and the big surge towards not having unprotected sex. You know, HIV...AIDS, that whole kind of new thing back then. But, also to set up Maddie's pregnancy to coincide with Cybill's.
As far as Maddie fibbing...I can see that she might have missed a pill or two and when asked by David at that moment it might have hit her that she had forgotten. What's she going to say at that point? Just what she told him! How are we to know for sure, though, that she was lying? You can take pills and pregnancy happens anyway... the answer is it's ML, so what do you expect!!?? ;D
Don't think she was intentionally misleading him, but then why did she fall for his charms and crater to her desire for him if she knew she missed those few pills? She initiated the kiss... Hmmmm....see just how confused she was?? LOL!
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Post by lin212 on Nov 11, 2009 20:14:05 GMT -5
Regarding the scene with Mr. Kendall: I hadn't realized the importance of this scene until I rewatched this time (confession: usually when I "watch" this ep I fast-forward right to the good stuff...you know what I'm talking about! ). But Mr. Kendall is really in the role of devil's advocate here--he takes Maddie's position, and she finds herself defending the importance of true love over "controlling the realities"...reversing her earlier reliance on the "facts" to head straight for that region just south of the brain. The fact that the scene in David's office is back-to-back with this one just underlines how confused Maddie really is. This episode is structured so brilliantly! Jen, I have to admit that I usually do the very same thing when watching this episode - fast forward through Mr. Kendall's speech. But you are so right about the importance of this scene. It does put Maddie in a very interesting position.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2009 20:42:56 GMT -5
Regarding the scene with Mr. Kendall: I hadn't realized the importance of this scene until I rewatched this time (confession: usually when I "watch" this ep I fast-forward right to the good stuff...you know what I'm talking about! ). But Mr. Kendall is really in the role of devil's advocate here--he takes Maddie's position, and she finds herself defending the importance of true love over "controlling the realities"...reversing her earlier reliance on the "facts" to head straight for that region just south of the brain. The fact that the scene in David's office is back-to-back with this one just underlines how confused Maddie really is. This episode is structured so brilliantly! Jen, I have to admit that I usually do the very same thing when watching this episode - fast forward through Mr. Kendall's speech. But you are so right about the importance of this scene. It does put Maddie in a very interesting position. Admit it ladies...the man is a creeper so you fast forward through it, right? He is a very good actor, however, and plays the part well!
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 20:47:48 GMT -5
Jen, I have to admit that I usually do the very same thing when watching this episode - fast forward through Mr. Kendall's speech. But you are so right about the importance of this scene. It does put Maddie in a very interesting position. Admit it ladies...the man is a creeper so you fast forward through it, right? He is a very good actor, however, and plays the part well! LOL--you've got me, bees! That gravelly voice kinda freaks me out...but he does play it very well! (The actor is William Hickey, BTW.)
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Post by lin212 on Nov 12, 2009 8:01:08 GMT -5
I just wanted to mention something else about the "safe" scene. I think that both Cybill and Bruce did a great job with this material. One of my most favorite lines is David saying that he didn't come "dressed for the party". Brilliant. Makes me smile every time.
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Post by diane on Nov 12, 2009 9:40:50 GMT -5
Diane: Mundo thanks for all those scenes. I love reading the changes and the blocking instructions. Too bad Cindy couldn't partake as I know this was her favorite episode of all time. And to honor your hard work....I offer the tidbit to the left of this panel.. Wow......have to admit, I skimmed by this a couple of times without realizing that was ME.....in a screen cap with GRAY. I am completely honored......and completely grateful that I am not wearing a white towel!!! You made my morning!
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Post by diane on Nov 12, 2009 9:55:23 GMT -5
Regarding my take on the "safe" question.
I do believe our girl Maddie might have been doing a little fibbing....or maybe fibbing to herself.
For you young'uns who were mere babes when the show originally aired...the sexual mores of the late 80s were like navigating a minefield. There was an almost backlash to the freer love that made the 60s and the 70s so "exciting(?).. The change was basically caused by the fear of disease, and also, the uncertainty of long term effects of the birth control pill on women. So although I am not saying we had lots of retroactive virgins, women were surely more careful about their sexual freedom.
My take on Maddie and her logic is that she would not be doing much sleeping around (especially since she never dated!), and that she would not be taking birth control pills "just in case". I can see her, in her mind, thinking that if she met someone, she would be able to take care of the situation in the proper time.......but then, Sam swept in, and David swooped...and ...well, the rest is Kismet.
And why didn't she have that conversation with David? I think she was embarrassed, and wouldn't admit it to him. Also, somewhere in the back of her mind, she knew that if David even considered the possibility of there being a pregnancy, he would drive her crazy. She was mixed up as it was at this point.....more complications were something she absolutely did not need. A little white lie was the lesser of the evils.
I do believe that at some point during this period, she did start taking the pill, but the ...ahem.....die were already cast.
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Post by jpen on Nov 12, 2009 10:07:58 GMT -5
Regarding my take on the "safe" question. I do believe our girl Maddie might have been doing a little fibbing....or maybe fibbing to herself. Just watched this scene again and I gotta conclude that you're all probably right about the "fibbing." Cybill does such a great job here...love her wide-open eyes and the little twist of her mouth as she says, "Absolutely." Ha! Not to mention, a little fib here would certainly fit her pattern of avoidance...
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Post by rose35 on Nov 12, 2009 10:20:17 GMT -5
Reg: The Safe question: I also think there may have been alittle fibbing too on our dear Maddies part. She was a single woman for how many years while working wit h David and i agree also why would she take birth control for the heck of it if no man was in the picture. Sam showed up unannounced and she didnt have time to run to her Dr to get started on the pill,also David happened what like a day or 2 later not quite sure of the SAM timeline of his visit LOL i think no more than a few days, so same w ith David she didnt plan it with David so no planning on her part there either. Well David seemed to be prepared with strangers so thats good (example RITA YUCK LOL ) but not with Maddie. Hmmm Wonder why? It would have not worked if Maddie said oh no David i'm not safe and then what they wouldnt have done it? OK Maddie wasnt safe i guess LOL Her face kinda shows it all too i think. We know sincere/serious Maddie face LOL
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 12, 2009 11:38:47 GMT -5
For you young'uns who were mere babes when the show originally aired...the sexual mores of the late 80s were like navigating a minefield. Truer words were never spoken. From THIS side of the gender fence, it wasn't any easier. You kinda, sorta DIDN'T ask about the protection issue, because it made it seem that you didn't TRUST the young lady. Therefore you had to either had to place your faith in her, or offer to "reinforce" things. The disease deal was an on again, off again thing here as well. Herpes was the nasty bug earlier in the decade, soon to be replaced by the killer HIV. Still at this point, I think most folks considered AIDS to be a problem centered on the gay community, and it wouldn't be until a bit later that it crossed over onto the front lobe consciousness in the hetero world....most famously after Magic Johnson's 1991 bombshell. After that point I think it became easier to discuss those issues without "killing the mood"....it became part of the foreplay, I suppose. Wouldn't know...was off the market by then.
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