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Post by beesnbears on Apr 28, 2010 21:36:21 GMT -5
Gray, love your avatar! Looks like Maddie has the hots for you!!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Apr 29, 2010 1:53:14 GMT -5
I just have to share how completely left out I feel here; thing is, it's my own damn fault. Borders.com is shipping Season 4 to my home probably as we speak. Reading all your brilliant comments made me realize that I need to get over my heartbreak and anguish re: Season 4 and appreciate the great scenes it has to offer.
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Post by lin212 on Apr 29, 2010 19:19:20 GMT -5
At the end of the episode, do you think that David regretted and was ashamed of his behavior?
As I watch the end of this episode, I feel bad for David. Please don't everyone scream - but, I really do. I know he did a terrible thing, but he doesn't leave that woman's place, all cockey and smug. He wanders the (nearly) empty street, looking dejected and lost. He hands over his jacket and all his money to the homeless guy, as if nothing means anything any more. I think he realizes that he made a mistake, thinking that he could go back to his old devil-may-care lifestyle to forget Maddie - but it didn't work. He walks off with his hands in his pockets and head down, alone and sad.
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 29, 2010 20:57:45 GMT -5
I agree with you lin212!! While I'm mad at David and would like to pinch his ears off... I do feel bad for him . He definitely isn't happy walking home that night....well, emotionally anyway! And btw, glad to see you back around here essing again!
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 29, 2010 20:59:46 GMT -5
I just have to share how completely left out I feel here; thing is, it's my own damn fault. Borders.com is shipping Season 4 to my home probably as we speak. Reading all your brilliant comments made me realize that I need to get over my heartbreak and anguish re: Season 4 and appreciate the great scenes it has to offer. You will be glad you did this! Some of Bruce's best work is in Season 4. And...you can come here for the therapy you will need during this little sojourn of yours! ;D
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Post by jpen on Apr 30, 2010 8:59:48 GMT -5
So true! We'll be here for you, witness, in your time o' need!
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Post by lin212 on May 2, 2010 14:37:15 GMT -5
4. Agnes is so great in her first scene: "You know how it is sometimes when you try everything you think of to make something happen, only nothing you do works?" What do you think is David's state of mind after this conversation, and after discovering MacGillicudy and Viola in Maddie's office?
I think that Bruce did a beautiful job with this scene. First we see David trying to make Agnes feel better, bolstering her spirits with his positive talk about Maddie's imminent return. Then he is soaring when he thinks that she has indeed returned. When he walks into Maddie's office only to find Bert and MacGuillicuddy going at each other, he comes crashing down. I just love the way he plays disciplinarian and punishes the guys for their behavior...is this a more responsible David? After he realizes that Maddie has not returned, he is crushed, drained. He has been putting on his game face, trying to keep everyone's spirits up, but is now overcome with disappointment and pain. I think that he really doesn't like the fact that Maddie has such power over him - to control his emotions, his happiness.
Thanks for welcome back, bees. I missed keeping up with all the "essedness"!
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Post by lin212 on May 2, 2010 14:51:58 GMT -5
And the burning question (s): 8. Why does Maddie leave that message for Agnes? Would she have told David about the pregnancy if he had answered the phone?
I think Maddie is excited and happy about the pregnancy. When she is in the car with Dr. Hill, she isn't distraught about the news. She is smiling and happy. I believe that she would have told David the news if he had picked up the phone. She really wants to share her good news and Agnes is the perfect confidante...she knows the dance that Maddie and David have been doing for the past 3 years...and she maybe the only girl friend that Maddie has at this point in her life.
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Post by hayesydaze on Oct 13, 2010 1:20:34 GMT -5
Wow, I really went through the emotional ringer with this one. I think it's a mark of how easy it is to become emotionally invested in the ML characters--while watching this episode (particularly in the David-Bert-two floozies scenes) I found myself yelling things at the characters (usually David) quite frequently.
Oh, David...I became more irritated with him after Bert made his impassioned towel speech, I think. But I also felt for the guy, considering the letdown he'd gotten from thinking Maddie was back.
I love Maddie's relationship with both her parents, I find it totally believable and emotionally fulfilling.
It seems that no one knew that the last movie Maddie saw when she flipped the channel was actually 'The Thin Man'...the William Powell-Myra Loy movies about the married couple who solve crimes together? Coincidences on Moonlighting? No such thing.
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Post by hayesydaze on Oct 13, 2010 1:56:12 GMT -5
1. What do you think is Maddie's state of mind when she turns off the TV?Irritation at not being able to distract herself from the 800 pound gorilla in the room. 2. Do you see any relationship between the brief movie clips, and Alex & Virginia's "turn the bed around" scene?Only the last one--'the Thin Man' series is about such a comfortably married couple who are so in tune, I can't help but feel they are something akin to Maddie's parents. 3. During all of Alex's scenes in this episode, I really starting thinking about the similarities between he and David...and, in particular, how David might handle a conflict like this with his own daughter. Any thoughts?Really? Alex reminds me more of Maddie than anyone else, and not in any specific way that I can pinpoint. 4. Agnes is so great in her first scene: "You know how it is sometimes when you try everything you think of to make something happen, only nothing you do works?" What do you think is David's state of mind after this conversation, and after discovering MacGillicudy and Viola in Maddie's office?He was so, so, SO excited when he thought she was back. It was more obvious, I think, because of how casually he played it up--like it was no big deal that she'd been gone for two weeks. When he saw that it was Bert and MacGillicudy, however, the crushing disappointment was even more acute for him. I think it was at that moment that he realized just how much Maddie being around meant to him--and he begins to really resent her for the effect she has on him. That's why he's so bitter in the bar, talking about how women are never worth it and when they realize you care it's the beginning of the end...he's stuck with Maddie and he hates it because there's nothing he can DO about it. Let's face it, the guy's a do-er, not a thinker. 5. What does the "Steak a la Dave" phone message tell us about the state of David and Maddie's relationship before she left? Do you think this supports or conflicts with what we saw in "Trip to the Moon"?I sort of think it conflicts with it, to be honest...either David's totally clueless or the relationship was having a really off day during 'Trip to the Moon.' It just made me really want to see David cook Maddie steak and then the two of them 'moving to the rug...' 6. The towel scene is, in my opinion, Herbert Viola's shining (if drippy) moment. Any comments on his speech and David's reaction?Loved his speech, I thought it was very heartfelt and VERY awkward. I think David was being honest when he said he completely agreed with him, but that he also was compartmentalizing his actions as a coping mechanism. Not surprisingly, Bert was disappointed in his mentor and hero. 7. What about David's thoughts at the end, as he walks down that nearly deserted boulevard?I think he realizes that, while sleeping with whats-her-face may have been a temporary ego boost and fun, it hasn't really made him feel any better. David shedding his coat was, in my mind, his recognition of his weakness--it reminded me of the note he ALMOST left at the end of 'Knowing Her.' There was a kind of self-deprecating levity to it that's just very...David. And the burning question (s): 8. Why does Maddie leave that message for Agnes? Would she have told David about the pregnancy if he had answered the phone?From a narrative perspective, the audience has to find out somehow. I don't think she could have told David over the phone because of the sensitive nature of the issue--Agnes is a safe, non-judgmental outlet for the information. However, had he answered the phone...I think she would have beaten around the bush and he would have been so desperate to keep her on the phone that he would've gotten it out of her eventually. And maybe he'd have been on the next plane to Chicago, who knows?
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1987
1st Level
Learning something every day
Posts: 210
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Post by 1987 on Oct 13, 2010 8:48:44 GMT -5
I thought Alex was definitely supposed to be the male version of Maddie. And the chemistry is so beautifully displayed between David and Alex (not unlike Maddie and David chemistry) in Father Knows Last. Virginia was more like the David role: more laid back and loved with her heart and not her head. I wish we could have seen more of David interacting with her parents. We learned more about Maddie in season 4 with the presence of her parents. It made me understand her and her decisions better.
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1987
1st Level
Learning something every day
Posts: 210
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Post by 1987 on Oct 13, 2010 8:54:35 GMT -5
Regarding the Steak a la Dave moment: I think there were definitely good, sweet times during their month together. A month is a long time for Maddie to be miserable and fighting it every moment. She likely gave in and tried to enjoy the relationship. They likely had these dinner moments on the rug that we should have seen. I think in Trip to the Moon she just had a freak out - probably brought on by pregnancy hormones. I know how unreasonable I was during that time. David was thinking everything was pretty much ok and was blindsided.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 6, 2011 6:43:00 GMT -5
At the end of the episode, do you think that David regretted and was ashamed of his behavior? As I watch the end of this episode, I feel bad for David. Please don't everyone scream - but, I really do. I know he did a terrible thing, but he doesn't leave that woman's place, all cockey and smug. He wanders the (nearly) empty street, looking dejected and lost. He hands over his jacket and all his money to the homeless guy, as if nothing means anything any more. I think he realizes that he made a mistake, thinking that he could go back to his old devil-may-care lifestyle to forget Maddie - but it didn't work. He walks off with his hands in his pockets and head down, alone and sad. Agree - he feels terrible! He tried and it simply didn't work! Bert was like his little voice of conscience here too wasn't he? He talked of feeling like he was being unfaithful to Agnes, the woman he loved, and David knew he felt the same way about Maddie. Lovely but sad episode - the distance between them is really felt by the viewers in this one. It makes it all the more powerful when Maddie does bridge the gap...that moment when she finds out she's pregnant and she calls him! He misses it! ARGGGHHHHHH! How different might it have been if he'd have answered and they could have talked - oh what if, what if, what if... I'm bracing my self for the 'Cool Hand Dave' combo now - head forward in crash position, knees in and pray ha ha. I actually adore the way this series 4 gets right inside your head and heart!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 6, 2011 7:05:57 GMT -5
At the end of the episode, do you think that David regretted and was ashamed of his behavior? As I watch the end of this episode, I feel bad for David. Please don't everyone scream - but, I really do. I know he did a terrible thing, but he doesn't leave that woman's place, all cockey and smug. He wanders the (nearly) empty street, looking dejected and lost. He hands over his jacket and all his money to the homeless guy, as if nothing means anything any more. I think he realizes that he made a mistake, thinking that he could go back to his old devil-may-care lifestyle to forget Maddie - but it didn't work. He walks off with his hands in his pockets and head down, alone and sad. Agree - he feels terrible! He tried and it simply didn't work! Bert was like his little voice of conscience here too wasn't he? He talked of feeling like he was being unfaithful to Agnes, the woman he loved, and David knew he felt the same way about Maddie. Lovely but sad episode - the distance between them is really felt by the viewers in this one. It makes it all the more powerful when Maddie does bridge the gap...that moment when she finds out she's pregnant and she calls him! He misses it! ARGGGHHHHHH! How different might it have been if he'd have answered and they could have talked - oh what if, what if, what if... I'm bracing my self for the 'Cool Hand Dave' combo now - head forward in crash position, knees in and pray ha ha. I actually adore the way this series 4 gets right inside your head and heart! Hmmmm...I have different feelings about David's behaviour in this episode. Actually I was ready to kill him the first time I watched. I don't feel sorry for him, I am furiuos! Why is it always the same: if a woman commits adultery - all blame is on her, the whole world is against her and no one understands why oh why did she did that to him who loved her so much?! But if it is a man who is unfaithful - no one blame him, everyone understand his motives and we call it " a terrible mistake" I can't accept this, he knew what he was doing. Yeah, they both were confused, they both were in despair, but she didn't sleep with anybody to solve those problems, and he did. My heart is broken every time I watch her calling him to tell she is pregnant and he is not there, not because he is out to buy milk for breakfast, he is with another woman. Nancy I love the 'Cool Hand Dave' combo, Bruce is brilliant in both parts, his performance makes me speechless, watch and you'll know what I mean
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 6, 2011 7:57:35 GMT -5
Oh don't get me wrong Goldster - He knew he'd made a terrible mistake and I believe he hated himself for it (shouldn't have done it in the first place I know!) - wish he'd felt that bad after sleeping with the 'A' word grrrrr. lol. I guess I just really felt for both of them! You're right - it's so horrible that he's sleeping with that woman when she rings him arghhhhhhhh!
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