REWATCHING: PLASTIC FANTASTIC LOVERS

[lin212]

OK, kids, I will start this one off tonight. I have my admission question, but have a few thoughts before throwing it out there. I tried to listen very carefully to the dialogue to get a real feel for the vibes between Maddie and David. I came away with the impression that the banter seemed warm, comfortable, funny, and even intimate at times. In the hotel scene, David suggests that they take advantage of the hotel room - since someone else would have to do the laundry. Then at the very end, he offers to spot her in the shower. So, tell me, why do you think he didn't kiss her??

[graycav56]

I agree on the banter Lin, while not the best of all time, it was MUCH improved over our last rewatch (Yuk and a Hard Place for those keeping score).

Soooo, why no smoochie? Me thinks they were just trying to reestablish some sexual tension between our protagonists..and I think they succeeded.

My Q: The entire episode relates to the comparison/contrast between outward physical beauty and that of the soul. There are some similarities to a classic Twilight Zone episode. Does anyone know the title, the premise, and the famous guest star of that show?

[diane]

Sorry guys, the Phillies are giving me fits tonight!

I'll chime in when I can!!

[1987]

One thing I liked about this episode is that this is the only time we hear Maddie tell David she finds him attractive (i.e. 'lucking out in the face department'). We hear him tell her this for 4 years so it's nice to hear her express this - even if her eyes said it all along.

I think the dialogue is sweet and easy between them. You can tell they have grown in their comfort with each other and their relationship. There was no need to try and go 'backwards' to the season 2/3 sexual tension. They were still interesting and had chemistry. Once the characters were written so OUT of character (WGC to LE) it just got horrible.

One major thing missing from these Season 5 episodes is the sweetness. Even in the silliest episodes there was usually a sentimental, sweet scene - usually at the end. This is very much missing. (I didn't find the wet with silicone almost kiss scene at the end very sweet.). Maybe if she hadn't wanted to take a rain check.....

[beesnbears]

My Texas Rangers turned things around tonight!!
Hope your Phillies do too, Diane!

My question: Do you think Maddie has changed and if so, how and why?

Why doesn't David kiss her? I think it's for a few different reasons. The writers were trying to recapture the lightning chemistry between them. And for the most part I think they did. Also, this stage of their relationship probably calls for a little caution.

I like to think though that David truly meant what he said about Maddie being gorgeous inside and out, as many times David's comments over the years concerned outward beauty. For him to say she is also beautiful inside tells her that he thinks of her in that way and that he really does know her to the depths of her soul. How could she not want to lean in for a kiss?!

But, I think David doesn't comply because 1. He wants to tread lightly and make sure it's really what Maddie wants and 2. It's the old play hard to get and don't be the first to admit feelings game. A little tease could go a long ways in making his case later.....

[graycav56]

Jul 6, 2010 22:00:32 GMT -5 1987 said:

One thing I liked about this episode is that this is the only time we hear Maddie tell David she finds him attractive (i.e. 'lucking out in the face department'). We hear him tell her this for 4 years so it's nice to hear her express this - even if her eyes said it all along.

Ya know, this is a great point. Of course all you ladies already realize this, but guys can be just as vain, sometimes even MORE than the fairer sex. OK, maybe most of us don't spend beaucoup hours primping for a night on the town, but I think we want to look at least presentable. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that the female gender doesn't verbally respond to all this effort in any sort of reasonable proportion. We gents slather the lady folk with compliment after compliment and all we get in return is "Do you REALLY need another beer? There's a sandwich in every glass!" or "Gawd, who dressed you this morning?" or "That stubble only looked good on Don Johnson...in 1985!"

Take this dialog for example. It stuck with me since I first rewatched this episode a few years ago. It was great. Too bad it was so late in the series to have any lasting effect.

[beesnbears]

I agree 1987. It is nice to hear Maddie tell David that he is attractive to her. And I agree with gray, women are not always great about telling men they look nice. I will admit I mostly tell my husband that his shirts don't match his pants or I might smooth his hair back when I kiss him goodbye or before we go somewhere. And for the most part, he is still pretty good about complimenting me....especially when I remind him that he hasn't been observant lately!! (29yrs. of marriage....I can do that!)

The reason for my rambling on this subject is that I think Maddie and David are in different territory at this point. They just came off of a sabotaged elevator and are trying to work their way back to each other. Almost as if they have just met...a starting over of sorts. Unfortunately, the later episodes in Season 5 fall away from this....but I digress.

The almost kiss; I've been thinking about Lin212's question some more. Really it's Maddie who hesitates. If she had kissed David I don't think he would have stopped her. But watching again, it seems as if he picks up on her hesitation and rather than fall back into the pattern of her regretting something later, he bails her out and makes light of the situation. What I like though is her taking a rain check on the dual shower, as if she isn't completely ruling that out for later....and David knows it!


The Twilight Zone. Can't remember for sure, gray. It's not the mannequin one is it?!? Speaking of Twilight Zone, has everyone seen Bruce in the episode called "Shatter Day"? It's pre-Moonlighting around 1984 or 1985. If not, you should check it out.

Gray.....I'm sure you look very nice today!!

[lin212]

One thing that is going through my mind is the scene in The Color of Maddie, the episode before this one. You know the part where Maddie says that they are in the middle of a ladder and don't really know where to go? I can see this episode as a continuation of that thought. They are warm and playful, complimenting one another and teasing each other as well. There are no arguments or biting words. It seems that they are in a good place, but without commitment, trying to feel their way. When Maddie leans in to kiss David, I don't see it as a hesitation, but more like she is going half-way, asking David to meet her there. When he declines to make that move, I wonder if he really isn't feeling it or if he is trying to prove a point. In any case, his banter about the shower keeps from making the situation awkward for Maddie. Just not quite sure what point he is trying to make....

[lin212]

gray, I have no clue on the Twilight Zone episode. BTW, I would like to echo bees' sentiments - I'm sure you look very nice today as well.

[graycav56]

Ah, the Twilight Zone episode is called Eye of the Beholder and the guest star was Donna Douglas, otherwise known as Elly May Clampett. This 1960 episode also dealt with a failed plastic surgery operation, but with the usual, or UNusual Twilight Zone twist.

And thanks for the compliments! <Blush>

[lin212]

One other little thought...I enjoyed the chase scene. The silliness reminded of the chase scenes of earlier seasons...silly, but "fun" silly...not like the stupid birds and air balloon of Between a Yuk. Truly, I did chuckle at the Mark Harmon nose - that was good.

[1987]

Yes, that was good. Also the many noses for Michael Jackson was great too, God Rest His Soul. That joke still holds up 20 years later - and unfortunately with a lot more noses than in '89.

Lin, you brought up a good point about David's hesitation. I always looked at like Maddie stopped the almost kiss. But looking at it from your point of view makes more sense. I think he wanted her to kiss him but was not going to make the move. He had been burned so bad by her that he was going to make her really prove to him that she would have no regrets if they got together again.

I love this Board.

[diane]

So sorry.....I have taken so long to get to this thread!!! But, as they say in Bull Durham...."I believe in the church of baseball"....and am spending an extraordinary amount of hours cheering my boys. Will try to be better, but at this time of year, my intentions could be suspect.

This is one of the episodes that has never really been a favorite, and I can't say rewatching is ever going to change this. But I did follow Lin's advice, and watch The Color of Maddie first, and I have to say it did make Plastic Fantastic more palatable.

Normally, when I watch for rewatching (say that 5 times fast!), I take lots of notes. But I sit here with a blank page....nothing really impressive -- not even many fun lines. I do agree that their relationship is friendly, warm, and fun.......but it's not what we want, is it? I'm not sure you can go through what they have, and come out the other side just "pals".......I think that realistically there would have to be a period of separation.......they would love each other or detest each other...maybe not in that order.

So in the middle of my rant, I guess that is my LATE admission question........Do you buy Maddie and David acting the way they do in this episode? Is it in any way realistic, given what they have been through?

Just a couple more points.....there were a few cute things in the episode -- the noses, the "Hernando's Hideaway" sneaking down the corridor...but in general, I think the episode seemed forced.....the comedy was lame.....the throwing scene in the doctor's office went on WAY too long....and both Cybill and Bruce did a huge amount of overacting throughout the entire episode. If I had to sum up the episode in one word, I would have to say FAKE...excuse the pun.

The "drop dead gorgeous" dialogue is sweet...and I do like the last scene with the almost kiss. I do think David holds back...he may still be smarting a bit from the "pals" concept, and as usual, he is looking out for Maddie's happiness. I think he wants to make sure that if they kiss, it is for all the right reasons, and not just falling into old habits.

[graycav56]

Jul 11, 2010 12:20:25 GMT -5 diane said:

So in the middle of my rant, I guess that is my LATE admission question........Do you buy Maddie and David acting the way they do in this episode? Is it in any way realistic, given what they have been through?

Well, I didn't rewatch Color of Maddie first, so I just came into this directly from Yuk. Your question is interesting as always.

Ya know, I really didn't think they acted all that much out of character in this show. Was it exactly perfect in terms of continuity? Nah. But I didn't see any fatal flaws.

One thing I do notice is the difference in opinion regarding the quality of this particular episode. The website only rates this show a 4, meaning somewhat below par. However, the forum poll gives it an average of 7.3...quite a change. Of course the forum poll is not a scientific one, but it does show a significant disparity.

[beesnbears]

They made Season 5 such a slippery path it's sometimes hard to figure out what would be the most realistic for their relationship at this point. But, I don't see this episode as being too far off the mark.

I keep going back to "Yuk..." and the silence in the elevator....if only they had talked...even if their much needed conversation happened in "Color..." I think the rest of the season (maybe) would have played out differently.

But....really bugs me is I could actually live with the way Season 5 came to be if they hadn't ended the entire series the way they did.

And THAT is an entirely different discussion.....