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Post by rose35 on Sept 21, 2010 18:45:14 GMT -5
Hey Gang! Well i just came to check in and i see there is no one here yet, so i'm starting us off I'm in the middle of cleaning up after dinner and thne off to get my boys ready for bed. I think most everyone feels the same about this episode. Me i am a bitter woman over this episode still 21 years after it ended GRRRRRRR LOL So here's my question: What is your a fave scene from this episode? Can we all find one? Also what is the scene you hate most in this episode? I'm sure we can find some of those very easliy. Hope these are ok questions to start us off . Hope more can join in
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 21, 2010 19:17:18 GMT -5
All, jpen asked me to post her questions for her:
1. Do you find David's behavior at the beginning of the episode, in particular in his confrontation with Maddie, consistent with the rest of Season 5?
2. What do you think we learn from Maddie's reaction to Agnes & Bert's engagement announcement?
3. As we have discussed many times, Agnes & Bert's characters serve to highlight/reflect/contrast with Maddie & David's. Do Maddie's and David's reactions to Agnes & Bert's respective anxieties reveal anything about their own take on marriage and relationships? Do you think their attitudes have changed over the five seasons?
4. From the Department of Speculation Department (forgive me, but I can't help it with this episode):
(a). Overall, what do you think was the intended tone of this episode: comedic? nostalgic? hopeful? dramatic?
(b). Why do you think the writers decided against Maddie and David getting back together at the end of the episode?
Will be back later!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 19:19:32 GMT -5
So here's my question: What is your a fave scene from this episode? I refer you to a visual aid: Miss Dipesto....you'll catch a cold in that outfit!!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 19:21:59 GMT -5
Also what is the scene you hate most in this episode? Ya know, I felt rather uncomfortable when that slob gumshoe from Lou LaSalle beat up Bert. I thought it was unnecessary and a bit over the top. And does anybody actually believe that a classy outfit like LaSalle would hire a bum like that? More proof that the series was totally out of synch by this point.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 19:34:48 GMT -5
1. Do you find David's behavior at the beginning of the episode, in particular in his confrontation with Maddie, consistent with the rest of Season 5?
Well it's consistent with the Despicable Dave we have seen since the entire Annie arc began. Completely out of character and eschewing the values he projected in the rest of the series.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 19:35:40 GMT -5
2. What do you think we learn from Maddie's reaction to Agnes & Bert's engagement announcement?
I really just think she was happy for them. She saw their relatively conventional courtship head to a logical conclusion. I don't think she drew any parallels (or perpendiculars) to her and David, at least in her reaction.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 19:46:18 GMT -5
4. From the Department of Speculation Department (forgive me, but I can't help it with this episode):
(a). Overall, what do you think was the intended tone of this episode: comedic? nostalgic? hopeful? dramatic?
It appears a hopeless mishmash of all of these. The comedic bits with the wedding planning, the drama of wrapping up the Annie story line, the hopeful pieces that you were thinking D&M would see how happy Bert and Agnes were and get serious again, and the nostalgic clips piece at the very end (most of the scenes came from Seasons 1-3 if you notice)
(b). Why do you think the writers decided against Maddie and David getting back together at the end of the episode?
Temporary insanity.
But ya know, while I have long felt that Moonlighting should remain as it was, a capsule of a certain time, the recent successful reboots of the James Bond and Star Trek franchises as well as last night's opening episode of the new Hawaii Five-0 have me rethinking my position a bit. I don't see Daniel Craig's Bond taking away from Sean Connery and the new edgier Steve McGarrett is a modern interpretation of Jack Lord's stoic persona.
Maybe there is still hope......
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1987
1st Level
Learning something every day
Posts: 210
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Post by 1987 on Sept 21, 2010 20:28:07 GMT -5
To me this episode is not even worthy of deep discussion. Jpen did a great job coming up with questions though. I couldn't even have gotten that far with this episode.
Aside from the schizophrenic attitudes of D&M the episode itself was so fragmented, sloppy and disjointed. This starts at the beginning when Mark visits Maddie. I am so embarrased for Moonlighting when watching this scene. It was so poorly written, the acting was really not good and you just felt you were watching Cybill and Bruce instead of David and Maddie. It is cringeworthy and amazing that this is the same office and same 2 people who had the Man Who Cried Wife overlapping dialogue just 2 1/2 years earlier. The last time they interacted together in Maddie's office was like watching some poorly written afternoon Nickelodeon pre-teen show.
The rest of the episode was so crazy and weird - just a rush to get it over with. I can actually get on board with the last scene - the final breaking of the 4th wall. That would have been creative, ingenious television. But the way it was done left us so confused, angry, hurt, etc. It could have been done like Camille was done or Twas the Ep. before Xmas but nooooooooo.
I feel everyone from the production staff to the actors (except poor Alyce and Curtis) were just so ready for this thing to be over and everyone had a bad taste in their mouth and they let that shine through in the final moments. I will say that I don't think we are left with the impression that Maddie and David parted and went their separate ways. I think they are left at a crossroads and it was up to us to create their own ending. At least that's what I have told myself that in comfort for 20 years.
I would like to know who wrote that final line for Maddie - that was just weird. Not sweet, not sad just out of place. Maybe it's just me that feels that way.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 21, 2010 20:30:21 GMT -5
What is your a fave scene from this episode? Can we all find one?
This is a tough question...I do think the scene gray chose is funny, what with Agnes gathering her trousseau and preparing for her impending nuptials.
However, if I were to choose I think I would say the scene where David meets Mark. It's here that we finally see a glimpse, ever so slightly, of the David we know. He realizes in this scene that he has crossed a line, that what he had been doing was only hurting everyone around him.
Also what is the scene you hate most in this episode?
The opening scene. I know Annie was put between Maddie and David for a reason, but that scene is almost too much...for me, anyway. This is the LAST episode of a groundbreaking show and they choose to open with Annie in David's arms. I suppose I could have taken it had they ended the show with Maddie in David's arms.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 21, 2010 21:01:52 GMT -5
1. Do you find David's behavior at the beginning of the episode, in particular in his confrontation with Maddie, consistent with the rest of Season 5?I have a REAL problem with the way David is written in this episode. As gray mentioned, he seems to have abandoned the morals and beliefs we have come to know. Again, I understand the purpose for Annie and really, I don't hate her as much as I detest how they (the writers) degraded David. How did they do that? WHY did they do that? The only way I can half way reconcile this is to make excuses for him, acknowledging the fact that Maddie had thrown so many roadblocks between them that he was the one that became "undeniably, certifiably...nuts." But, with Maddie, they seemed to have written her with more depth in character than the entire 4Th season. I like how she stands up to David in her office, even though it's painful to see them bicker without the banter. We see her in "Eine..." standing up to him again with the "desperate people" dialogue and then again our Maddie forever strong as she checks herself into a hotel....although quite possibly lonely all the same. Yet, we can see that they still care for and love each other. I'm sure there are a million reasons, some we have discussed, for why they ended the show this way, but for the life of me, I don't understand how they missed the mark with David Addison in the end.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 21, 2010 21:03:46 GMT -5
2. What do you think we learn from Maddie's reaction to Agnes & Bert's engagement announcement?I really just think she was happy for them. She saw their relatively conventional courtship head to a logical conclusion. I don't think she drew any parallels (or perpendiculars) to her and David, at least in her reaction. ditto Love the avatar, gray!!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 21, 2010 21:08:38 GMT -5
Love the avatar, gray!! Aw shucks. That one was a gimme for this episode, eh?
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1987
1st Level
Learning something every day
Posts: 210
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Post by 1987 on Sept 21, 2010 21:16:04 GMT -5
Yes this Avatar cheered me up. Great one
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 21, 2010 21:39:12 GMT -5
3. As we have discussed many times, Agnes & Bert's characters serve to highlight/reflect/contrast with Maddie & David's. Do Maddie's and David's reactions to Agnes & Bert's respective anxieties reveal anything about their own take on marriage and relationships? Do you think their attitudes have changed over the five seasons?
I think David's conversation with Bert in the beginning is David's attempt to play the "part" that Bert would expect him to play...cynical about marriage and quite possibly any relationship that required commitment. But, I think we know that David has always wanted a committed relationship with Maddie and maybe down the road eventually marriage. He admits to this idea ever so slightly when he sees that what he is telling Bert is not helping him at all. So he pulls his head out of the trash can and tells him if he loves Agnes and Agnes loves him, then there's nothing to worry about. We see another little glimpse of the David we know...deep down, he is optimistic about love and relationships and maybe even marriage.
Maddie and Agnes's conversation possibly reveals Maddie has changed her opinions about marriage. She's not afraid of it anymore, but possibly feels as though she missed her chance with David since Annie came to town. Yet, she still assures Agnes that she is doing the right thing and that it's normal to feel anxious at a time like that.
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Post by jpen on Sept 21, 2010 21:54:21 GMT -5
What is your a fave scene from this episode? Can we all find one?
Good question, rose. I think I'd have to agree with bees, that my "favorite" (or "makes me the least sick to my stomach") scene is the one with David and Mark. Finally, we see David awaken to the pain he's caused, and take some responsibility for it.
I also think the scene with Maddie and Agnes is sweet...though, given what his fate is, I find Agnes' fantasies about MacGillicudy kind of macabre.
Also what is the scene you hate most in this episode?
Absolutely the beginning, where David talks about his "dream" of making love to a beautiful girl three times...yuk, yuk, and YUK. All of the "David goes domestic" scenes make me nauseous--it just seems cruel and wrong to see him in that situation with another woman.
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