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Post by sandra on Sept 3, 2011 7:30:25 GMT -5
.She's already made plans with Sam and it's inevitable that it will happen, so the "situation" that was bothering her no longer needs taking care of (by David). That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. I don't agree. Had David been less terrified about his own courage when he crashed their dinner in S&D and made his pass, Maddie wouldn't have dreamed of sleeping with Sam.
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treasmus
1st Level
Maddie Hayes
Posts: 41
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Post by treasmus on Sept 3, 2011 7:47:00 GMT -5
She would have gone out and done something even if Sam hadn't shown up. But it's inevitable that Maddie and Sam will sleep together. Maddie's behavior in "Blonde on Blonde" makes it crystal clear that she wants something to happen. Well actually she did go out and as we all saw - nothing happened. If she really wanted it happen so much - why didn't she go with those men she met in that club/bar? Here's my theory. Even if she does go to that bar to hook up with someone, and even if she wants something to happen, she still has standards. Of course, this is season 3 Maddie. Season 4 Maddie no longer has any standards, but that's another discussion. Notice that in the scene at the bar she gives married Eric Forrester a chance. Later, she gives another guy a chance. They're both hopeless and they're exactly the kind of men that remind Maddie of why she does not do singles bars, but she nevertheless gives them a chance, just like she gave one to David that evening. She's not completely out of her mind, though. I think the way she rejects Eric Forrester is classic Maddie ("the four of us: you, me, your wife and her lawyer"). That scene made me so happy. And then when she storms into the restroom and tells the blonde about the guy who spilled his drink (or was it hers?) on her and suggested they go to his place to freshen up, that's another classic Maddie. She may be willing, but she still has standards. And I think she intentionally goes to a place where she feels out of her depth. I think she goes to that bar for a very specific reason. She knows no man there could possibly live up to her standards. She gives the two guys in the bar a chance, but she knows they will fail and she hopes they will fail so that she can justify not hooking up with men like them. I think she went to that bar because she made up her mind about going. She had to do it even if it meant being disappointed. It was just something she had to do because she made up her mind about doing it. That's Maddie. The whole thing sounded like a viable idea in her mind when she thought about it, but the physical reality of it was a totally different thing. I think once she saw what was out there (the kind of men that were out there), once the physical reality of what was out there hit her, and once she realized how below her it was, she kept waiting for something to happen to stop her from going through with it with men who were so below her (she was waiting for something to happen all along and she knew it wasn't in that bar, not that she would hook up with those men anyway) - and then Sam came along and he was it. David could have been it, but he blew it (twice). I think she really wanted something to happen but then realized she didn't want it to happen that way. That's not Maddie. Pretty much. .She's already made plans with Sam and it's inevitable that it will happen, so the "situation" that was bothering her no longer needs taking care of (by David). That's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. I don't agree. Had David been less terrified about his own courage when he crashed their dinner in S&D and made his pass, Maddie wouldn't have dreamed of sleeping with Sam. That's possible. Maddie waited for David in "Blonde on Blonde", then she waited for him in "Sam and Dave", but he didn't say anything. Then she gave him yet another chance at the office, and he started babbling about Viola. That said, I don't necessarily think Maddie thought she was settling for Sam, but she probably thought it was best to keep one's options open.
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Post by iluvdavid on Sept 3, 2011 8:36:02 GMT -5
The scene where Maddie is trying to get David to admit his feelings to hr makes me cringe every time! I just want to shake him! I keeping shouting at the TV...tell her! I think this part may be after she slept with Sam I am not sure...but this was the prefect opportunity for David to tell her he loved her. But remember the writers were leading up to the Big Bang episode.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 3, 2011 16:33:49 GMT -5
It was a very interesting theory, treasmus... I guess we'll never know what was going on in Maddie's head at that moment. We can only guess. But what is bothering me is this part: Even if she does go to that bar to hook up with someone, and even if she wants something to happen, she still has standards. Of course, this is season 3 Maddie. Season 4 Maddie no longer has any standards, but that's another discussion. In my opinion (maybe I am wrong), standards is something a person is born with, it is like an attitude, you either have it, or you don't have it And when you say that Maddie has lost her standards in season 4 - sorry, it can't be. Yes, she did mistakes, but who didn't? It doesn't mean she lost those standards.
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Post by sandra on Sept 3, 2011 17:16:21 GMT -5
In my opinion (maybe I am wrong), standards is something a person is born with, it is like an attitude, you either have it, or you don't have it And when you say that Maddie has lost her standards in season 4 - sorry, it can't be. Yes, she did mistakes, but who didn't? It doesn't mean she lost those standards. Goldie, I don't think (moral) standards or attitude are something you're born with, you develop them growing up, maturing. And Maddie always had very high moral standards, at least I got the impression by what we saw from her. And moral standards isn't something you just kick to the trash. Lots of times in season 4 I'm very angry with Maddie, I think she made a lot of mistakes and mostly all the possible wrong choices. But she didn't do all this because suddenly she had changed or totally abandoned her moral standards. She did all this because she was torn inside, confused, afraid. But she was still the same (morally deeply integer) person she had been before.
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Post by diane on Sept 3, 2011 19:17:41 GMT -5
I'm not sure treasmus is talking only about moral standards. If you reread, I think she is using standards to mean Maddie's norm, the choices she makes on a regular basis. Morals are a part of that, but there are many other requirements that a person has and uses. (I still don't agree that Maddie deliberately relaxed her standards in season 4, but I will get to that in due time).
There are many interesting theories and ideas in these posts. I am mulling over, and would like to jump into the discussion shortly. But I am muddle headed from no sleep last night, so tomorrow is another day for me.
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snappysara
2nd Level
Spit and slide under
Posts: 283
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Post by snappysara on Sept 4, 2011 7:27:26 GMT -5
Do you not think that the writers just messed this up a bit? Gentlereaders 'Don't' on fanfic - goes some way to helping me understand David's silence. Of course Maddie had high moral standards - they were for the most part what stopped her from wanting to be with David most of the time. (something which women viewers find hard to relate to because most of our standards aren't as high as hers and we are not as pretty so would settle for David) I don't feel she dropped these by wanting a one night stand - she just wanted to see something different and try being something that she is not. With David not speaking his mind when he had the chance, it just keeps the 'will they wont they' going a bit longer. That was what was so great about Moonlighting. I think the writers were under pressure to meet deadlines and a true analysis of the perfect triology was needed. This is lacking at times both in the actions of the main characters but also in the dialogue - for example - I don't think the bedroom dialogue between Maddie and David just before the 'big bang' is perfect and I really dislike the dialogue in David's bed and what happens after this. Maddie's contradictory behaviour is down to this lack of consistency of writing and planning. However, this is interspersed with the brilliance of the trunk scene dialogue and the conversation in the car. I have been watching Bones recently and it is obvious that the consistent approach of writing on this series leads to much less frustration on the part of the viewer without the ad hoc multiple personality disorders of the main protagonists. The Bones writers have got it spot on so far and managed to keep the 'will they wont they' suspense through 5-6 seasons without ruining any personal relationships and keeping the characters true to themselves. The downfall of Moonlighting was always due to some bad decisions made by the writing team on behalf of the characters - however, they were right not to show M and D too emotionally in love as this undermines the whole point of Moonlighting and their relationship in the first place. As David once said 'It was a long time ago' xxxxxx
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Post by iluvdavid on Sept 4, 2011 8:00:50 GMT -5
Settle for David? And why would her moral standards keep her from wanting to be with him? I don't see David as being immoral. I see him as being immature and undependable at times. I see him as slightly annoying and frustrating. David is the one in "Creatures Great and not so Great" who finds it offensive and morally wrong to find a woman for a priest.... I don't think Maddies' morals had anything to do with her reasons for not wanting to be with David. I felt that she had some image of the perfect man...educated, rich etc. and David wasn't that. Yet, Sam was the perfect man (Maddies's version) and she didn't want him either. And yes, I think the writers messed this up .. a lot!
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treasmus
1st Level
Maddie Hayes
Posts: 41
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Post by treasmus on Sept 4, 2011 9:38:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure treasmus is talking only about moral standards. If you reread, I think she is using standards to mean Maddie's norm, the choices she makes on a regular basis. Morals are a part of that, but there are many other requirements that a person has and uses. Yeah. Standards in the sense that the men at the bar clearly do not meet Maddie's criteria for what makes an acceptable companion/whatever you want to call it. Not just morals. She rejects Eric Forrester on moral grounds and because he doesn't meet her standards, while the second guy just doesn't meet Maddie's criteria for an acceptable companion. David does not either. Sam does. Of course Maddie had high (...) standards - they were for the most part what stopped her from wanting to be with David most of the time. Yup. It's definitely one of the reasons. There are times when Maddie cannot bear the sight of David because his entire being and everything he represents are at odds with Maddie, eg. the scene where he's singing in the shower, or the scene where she's putting on lipstick before their date and then she suddenly stops and smears it off. She's almost physically repulsed by him sometimes.
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Post by iluvdavid on Sept 4, 2011 9:46:01 GMT -5
But yet she doesn't choose Same either.
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treasmus
1st Level
Maddie Hayes
Posts: 41
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Post by treasmus on Sept 4, 2011 9:48:06 GMT -5
But yet she doesn't choose Same either. No, she doesn't choose Sam, but he does meet her standards.
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Post by iluvdavid on Sept 4, 2011 9:51:57 GMT -5
In my opinion, even if Maddie had met a man at the bar that lived up to every single point on her wish list she would have never left the bar with him. A planned one night stand..with a stranger? Totally not Maddie!
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Post by sandra on Sept 4, 2011 10:38:37 GMT -5
In my opinion, even if Maddie had met a man at the bar that lived up to every single point on her wish list she would have never left the bar with him. A planned one night stand..with a stranger? Totally not Maddie! Completely agree ILD!!!
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Post by diane on Sept 4, 2011 11:56:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure treasmus is talking only about moral standards. If you reread, I think she is using standards to mean Maddie's norm, the choices she makes on a regular basis. Morals are a part of that, but there are many other requirements that a person has and uses. Yeah. Standards in the sense that the men at the bar clearly do not meet Maddie's criteria for what makes an acceptable companion/whatever you want to call it. Not just morals. She rejects Eric Forrester on moral grounds and because he doesn't meet her standards, while the second guy just doesn't meet Maddie's criteria for an acceptable companion. David does not either. Sam does. Yup. It's definitely one of the reasons. I would appreciate it if you would watch the way you are cutting and pasting quotes. Since you quoted me at the beginning, it appears that I am the source of both quotes.....and I most definitely did not say nor do I believe the quote about her high standards being the thing that made her not want to be with David.
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treasmus
1st Level
Maddie Hayes
Posts: 41
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Post by treasmus on Sept 4, 2011 12:54:18 GMT -5
I would appreciate it if you would watch the way you are cutting and pasting quotes. Since you quoted me at the beginning, it appears that I am the source of both quotes.....and I most definitely did not say nor do I believe the quote about her high standards being the thing that made her not want to be with David. Sorry. Fixed it and added an explanation.
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