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Post by sandra on Sept 4, 2011 13:43:55 GMT -5
She's almost physically repulsed by him sometimes. Gosh not sure if we ever saw the same show then... I always thought I saw physical attraction on both sides, almost from day one! I never noticed the reaction you mentioned... except for the few times when David was drunk when they met.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 4, 2011 16:10:59 GMT -5
In the scene where Maddie tells David she wants to be reckless, Maddie says "your jaw wouldn't be on the floor if this were Viola or Magilicutty you were having this conversation with " David acts more angry than shocked. It always bothered me that the converstaion takes on a a more aurgumenative tone than a frustrated one. Maybe she is embarrassed... or do you think in a small way it could have been an invitation to David to "solve her problem" and when he didn't, she got upset? Just wondering cause the anger that sudden popped up always has bothered me. This was davidsmaddie's original question...I'm pretty sure she didn't think this would turn into a character assassination. Still like honeyblonde's response as well as our old pal gray, who gives a great male perspective on the subject...
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Post by diane on Sept 4, 2011 20:36:17 GMT -5
Ok….finally have gotten the time to jump in here…sorry for the delay.
At the beginning of BOB, Maddie is clearly frustrated….in all ways possible. Beside the obvious sexual frustration that she expresses, she is majorly confused over her relationship with David. Why does this man throw her so out of kilter? She is used to life being easy, and ever since Blue Moon and David became part of her life, she has had to question the very core of her existence. Men don’t make her crazy, but this one does….and she can’t get him out of her head or her heart. She tells him (and us) very early on…”Only YOU….YOU make me stiff and tense”. Every logical thought in her head says he isn't her usual type of guy…but she can’t fight the attraction.
Her frustration also stems from David’s inability to make clear what he wants. He is going farther than he ever has before…thinking she should understand how he feels….but the real truth is he can’t verbalize what he wants and needs.
So Maddie decides to go to a bar…big deal. So have half the people in the world when they have had relationship trouble. But I totally disagree that Maddie went looking for a one night stand, in spite of her statements to the contrary. I think she wanted to be reassured that there were men out there that found her desirable, and were willing to express that. And maybe she needed to explore the possibility that there might be someone out there for her. . And I believe it is too convoluted to say that she went there knowing she would fail to meet somebody, although I am positive that no one she would have met would be able to make her feel the way David did.
So she went home, and there was Sam. Sweet (or so we thought) familiar Sam. I don’t think the situation with Sam would have gone any farther, had David not screwed up so badly in the restaurant. She sat there with both of them doing the heart over head debate, and to almost anybody, the facts add up that Sam was the more successful, more well suited man to Maddie. I think she was deeply troubled over the whole evening, and Sam took advantage of that when he returned to her home.
Why didn’t David fight back? I think he started to…but I think what made David retreat was Sam’s visit to him in the middle of the night. I am firmly convinced that David listened to Sam’s manipulation of the facts, and was trying to do what was right for Maddie. I think that visit dealt a severe blow to his confidence, and that is why he couldn’t…or wouldn’t respond when Maddie tried to push him for an answer. So yes, I guess you can say David failed again – but the yin and the yang of the relationship between these two is not being able to say what they truly feel…..and being afraid that their intense feelings are not reciprocal. .
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Post by diane on Sept 4, 2011 20:43:13 GMT -5
A couple more points:
Physical repulsion? Maddie and David? They touched each other all the time...from day one...which in itself is unusual in the fact that workplace sexual harassment issues were pretty much headline news in the 80s. Treasmus, the two scenes that you choose to show repulsion I would tend to interpret as Maddie's confusion and inability to deal with things that seem at odds in her head.
And Snap, I don't think Maddie's "standards" are the reason she doesn't think she can be with David. I think that the true raw emotion that he can evoke in her, and the lack of control she feels when with him is more the issue than the "type" that he is.
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Post by sandra on Sept 5, 2011 0:11:38 GMT -5
Diane, I agree with everything you said in your two last posts; both Maddie's and David's reasons to "screw up" in their respective ways was deeply rooted fear of their intense feelings - and for Maddie paired with the fear of losing control.
Oh and I love how you point out Sam's very calculating character! He took advantage of Maddie's confusion, pretty well realizing he was interfering with a relationship - even if it hadn't been consumed yet, but it was one.
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Post by marple on Sept 5, 2011 2:56:38 GMT -5
Sorry for interrupting, but I contradict this part in treasmus post, gwhy she reacted this way is that she is physically repulsed by him.h
All these examples are in gA Trip to the Moonh, and I think she was in her ultimate confusion. They spent a month honey moon, but in her head I think she is afraid of spending their sweet time just doing it. As an old girl I am, I can imagine if the activities of lovers were always centered in the bed room, it would make a straight girl very insecure about their relationship, thinking gIs this, just this, lasting long way or forever?h or gWhat is our vision of the future life?h But David is just in his heaven, singing in the shower, he seems not to realize her worries, sometimes it makes her very angry at him. She feels there are lots of things to do, but she knows she canft resist him because she is truly attracted to his physical attraction. It makes her state of mind much worse, she feels losing control. Although they love each other, she canft see how this relationship work because of their differences. I think her mistake here is that she tried to sort it out on her own. She did it to Sam too, and this is our girl Maddie. Ifm not blaming her for it at all, in case. And Ifm not blaming David, of course.
I just canft judge both of them like gthey actually hate each otherh, physically or mentally or whatever. There are a lot of differences and confusions between them but they have made this dynamic duo, and Maddie and David have brought many terrific things (adventure, banter, argument, making up, friendship, strong bond, etc.) to us, which why Ifm rooting for both of them! If he or she really hated the other, they just could have walked away in the earlier episode. JMHO, indeed.
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treasmus
1st Level
Maddie Hayes
Posts: 41
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Post by treasmus on Sept 5, 2011 13:14:13 GMT -5
Men don’t make her crazy, but this one does….and she can’t get him out of her head or her heart. She tells him (and us) very early on…”Only YOU….YOU make me stiff and tense”. Every logical thought in her head says he isn't her usual type of guy…but she can’t fight the attraction. David makes her crazy, but I don't think crazy is a good thing for Maddie. Crazy is okay for Annie, not Maddie. Anything too far to the left or too far to the right eventually makes Maddie miserable and unbearable to be around. She says to David in the first episode of the 4th season: "I'm numb, David, raw. You love this kind of friction. I can't live with this!" She says David has only two extremes: white hot or icy cold, and no middle ground. It's not just because she's "confused", this is how she feels around David at all times. Always on the edge. Never sure of anything. Maddie often decides by going with the negative option, eg., "I don't know what to do, but I know what I don't want to do." She did that with Sam's proposal and she did the same when she left for Chicago. She told David she didn't know what to do, but that she knew she didn't want to keep doing this (meaning them being "together"). She wasn't sure about them, but she was sure they weren't working out. She said she felt empty inside because she was burned out by the constant oscillation between hot and cold with no middle ground. And that's all it ever is with David. This is a man who is capable of interrupting and destroying Maddie's date with another man and embarrassing her in public for selfish reasons. He can't gather up the courage to tell her how he feels about her? Well, fiddle-dee-dee, maybe he should grow a pair, learn some manners, and realize there are two other people there, and among those two people one person he supposedly cares about. As it happens, he makes Maddie and Sam's evening about himself. Desperate? Yes. Acceptable? No. When Maddie describes her ideal date, she says she wants the guy to plan ahead to show that he cares. Not to send her flowers (and certainly not to steal them from her own garden or steal plastic flowers from her office), but to pick them out himself and bring them to her. Add a personal touch. When Maddie describes a failed date (she says something about trying it every couple of months and being disappointed every time), she says the guy didn't plan ahead, that they drove around and ended up in some random dump because everything else was closed. How does David figure into this? He is one of her disaster dates. Which is why I don't understand what she sees in David. He's everything she can't stand in a man.
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Post by diane on Sept 5, 2011 13:19:24 GMT -5
Clearly, you underestimate her.
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Post by sandra on Sept 5, 2011 13:34:27 GMT -5
How does David figure into this? He is one of her disaster dates. Which is why I don't understand what she sees in David. He's everything she can't stand in a man. Apart from the fact that I don't like David being called a disaster - well, I guess that's the crazy little thing called LOVE.
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Post by iluvdavid on Sept 5, 2011 13:41:57 GMT -5
Wow, I don't think that David is everything Maddie can't stand in a man. treasmus, you make t sound like Maddie couldn't stand David and that he always irritated her. Maybe I was watching a different show but during Seasons 2 and especially most of Season 3 (til Blonde on Blonde) Maddie looked like she was crazy about David. Sure, he may have irritated her. Certainly, they had their differences but that was THEM. In the episode "Creatures Great and Not so Great" Maddie tries to explain her feelings to the priest in confession. She admits that they are two different people. She looks confused...not repulsed. She loves him. He loves her. Both are unsure. Both are scared. I don't think you like David much...treasmus. Even though my site name is Iluvdavid....I also love Maddie cause without one there would have been no chemistry..no show! Just my two sense!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Sept 5, 2011 13:44:12 GMT -5
David makes her crazy, but I don't think crazy is a good thing for Maddie. Crazy is okay for Annie, not Maddie. Anything too far to the left or too far to the right eventually makes Maddie miserable and unbearable to be around. Sorry, can't agree with this. You make her look like an artificial doll!! Which she is not.
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Post by sandra on Sept 5, 2011 13:57:22 GMT -5
Wow, I don't think that David is everything Maddie can't stand in a man. treasmus, you make t sound like Maddie couldn't stand David and that he always irritated her. Maybe I was watching a different show but during Seasons 2 and especially most of Season 3 (til Blonde on Blonde) Maddie looked like she was crazy about David. Sure, he may have irritated her. Certainly, they had their differences but that was THEM. In the episode "Creatures Great and Not so Great" Maddie tries to explain her feelings to the priest in confession. She admits that they are two different people. She looks confused...not repulsed. She loves him. He loves her. Both are unsure. Both are scared. I don't think you like David much...treasmus. Even though my site name is Iluvdavid....I also love Maddie cause without one there would have been no chemistry..no show! Just my two sense! What she said to the priest... good point, ILD! Agree with every word you said!! David and Maddie are both equally vital, equally lovable parts of the show.
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snappysara
2nd Level
Spit and slide under
Posts: 283
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Post by snappysara on Sept 5, 2011 15:21:11 GMT -5
"I love him....I just can't stand him" Conflicting views in one sentence. Made me laugh when she said it and still does as we (I) understand exactly how she feels. She loves him but he is not good enough for her at times. The throwing up in the car and leering at other women through a telescope are enough o put any woman off but he makes up for all of that with his tenderness and moral standpoint on certain things and makes her question her own morals.
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Post by moonlightinglover on Sept 10, 2011 2:29:39 GMT -5
Maddie loves David, but he is so not her "type." He makes her feel secure, whole, and totally and completely wanted and loved. I truly feel that as BOB starts, she wants him to be the one to talk her out of it, to take her right then and there. He is trying to be a gentleman and talk her out of it. She ends up with a "secure" man, Sam. I have no doubts, though, that she really wished it had been David at her doorstep at the end of the night, and not Sam. I see the conflict in her eyes in the next episode, as David gets more and more drunk and embarrasses her. Sam is security, David is her true passion and love. As different as they are, he is the one she should have ended up with...
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Post by sandra on Sept 10, 2011 4:16:29 GMT -5
I truly feel that as BOB starts, she wants him to be the one to talk her out of it, to take her right then and there. Yes I agree, moonlightinglover. I think too that her whole speech was intended to be kind of a wake-up-call for David. Unfortunately - like Maddie - he was way too afraid of his own feelings and shocked in that moment to react how he should have.
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