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Post by queensgirl on Feb 23, 2006 9:18:26 GMT -5
Watch "A Tale in Two Cities."
Right after the woman gets out from under the covers and starts to get dressed again, David looks up from his side of the bed and says, "And maybe I can call you sometime," or words to that effect.
The woman says, "No, let's not."
Interestingly enough, this is a plot contradiction with her reappearance in "Father Knows Last," where she suddenly walks up to the table and shakes hands with David and says, "Call you next week?" or words like that.
Maddie's father just goes absolutely livid. As you'd expect.
"You've already moved on to the next blonde..."
As for the message, I'm pretty sure he mentioned it in one of his calls to Chicago. Can't name you the episode.
Even so, I don't see how you find what he did excusable, while what she did, isn't.
She was trying to be with a man who was respectful and didn't get angry. And at the time, that wasn't the man she left in Los Angeles.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 23, 2006 9:23:34 GMT -5
I will storm to my video tapes and check the episodes from "A Tale in Two Cities" and forward so that I will certain about it. Still, I remember David getting out of bed and getting dressed and her being snugling under the covers. I will see it tonight and let you know. I can not be that wrong!!!
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Post by ryangie97 on Feb 23, 2006 12:56:39 GMT -5
This debate seems to me to come down to one central issue... The ol' "I don't have to say anything. You know it, and I know it. You feel it, and I feel it" chestnut. Is that a standard Maddie can be held to or not? In other words, is it unreasonable for David to expect her to act upon that unspoken feeling? David REALLY thinks he doesn't have to say anything, at least by the time "I am Curious..." rolls around. (Funny that we know he thinks that only because he comes right out and says it.) Does he "have to say anything"? Does Maddie bear any responsibility for knowing it, feeling it? I'm not going to get into my own opinion about this... just throwing out what I think is an important question. "I don't have to say anything. You know it, and I know it. You feel it, and I feel it." Just SEXY words? Or a truth Maddie must take responsiblity for? Hmmm... So true. I always thought that was a very sexy line ;D Yeah maybe he should have told her sooner, but you gotta love that line and the way he delivers it. And really when there is something between 2 people, maybe you have doubts, but you do have to feel it and somewhere deep down know it. I think Maddie really knew he had feelings for her but didn't know to what degree, whether he would actually commit to her the way Sam was willing to. And queensgirl your right about the phone calls in season 4. It seems one minute he would be so angry and the next would be begging her to return home. But I always felt so sorry for him in those scenes. Bruce did such a wonderful job, I could understand the frustration and hurt he must have been going through. And when I saw the scene where he destroys her car I thought that was just heartbreaking. A very immature reaction for sure, but I can't help it. As much as I love Maddie's character and can understand her actions in some ways, I always seem to end up feeling more sympathy for David's character.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 26, 2006 6:31:01 GMT -5
Queensgirl I did not manage to go through my tapes yet. I will get there, I will not give up so easily.
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Post by queensgirl on Feb 26, 2006 6:39:22 GMT -5
What do you mean, "give up"? It's not boxing, it's just an opinion.
To that end, I'm off the thread. I think it's been dragged far enough off track already.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 26, 2006 6:47:35 GMT -5
ok, the thread is cut and the tip of is burnt out
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Post by Hazel on Feb 26, 2006 12:17:44 GMT -5
Hey y'all, it's okay to have differing opinions, as long as we don't get cutting or take things too personally. Remember we're all here to chat about a show we all enjoy-- let's keep our chats enjoyable too! (Incidentally, I believe it was Dave who gets up while the girl stays in bed.)
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Post by mlbestshowever on Feb 26, 2006 13:15:08 GMT -5
Hi Ryangie,
you are so right! I also always had more sympathy for David and although he didn´t really talk about his feelings for her "on time" or made sometimes silly jokes or comments I always loved his character and was always more on "his side" concerning their relationship. When I first watched it (age 15/16) I found it very romantic and cool that Dave is not really thinking about what could happen the next year and couldn´t understand Maddies fears and concerns about the relationship. I just felt it was right for them to be together. Now that I have grown up since the 80s as well I kind of understand Maddies character better than I used to but still I am suffering with David not with Maddie. And I still just feel that they are meant to be together!!!
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bluemooner
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Post by bluemooner on Feb 26, 2006 14:25:46 GMT -5
And I still just feel that they are meant to be together!!! Me too!
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Post by adyjdy on Feb 26, 2006 22:10:16 GMT -5
Now that I have grown up since the 80s as well I kind of understand Maddies character better than I used to but still I am suffering with David not with Maddie. That is so intereresting mlbestshowever. I used to really feel Maddie when I was younger and I've come to sympathize more with Dave as I've gotten older. It's also worth noting, I think, that there is probably something to the idea of fans leaning more toward feeling for David. The reason I say that is because Cybill herself has said that SHE felt Maddie's character was often made out to be the bad guy. If Cybill felt that way, it's not hard to see why many of the fans would as well.
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Post by funkycat on May 12, 2006 17:19:23 GMT -5
I'm adding my two cents worth without wishing to disagree or offend anybody who has already posted.
When I first watched the episodes in this arc I remember thinking "Why doesn't David say something?"
On reflection I believe that he was all set to take a chance and say what he really felt in Blonde on Blonde. Then he encountered Sam. Didn't know him from a bar of soap but felt pretty hurt. This hurt overflowed into the next morning when it became alarm as he realised that Maddie had a history with this guy.
Nevertheless, he was still ready to lay it all on the line to her, so much so that he interrupted her dinner. He almost managed to get the words out and I believe he would have but then he was stymied by Sam returning. He proceeds to embarrass himself by getting drunk and I believe he is also trying to sabotage Sam's chances. At the end of the meal, when they are outside he is clearly viewing he and Maddie as a team when he offers to take Sam home. Humiliatingly, he is the one who is taken home by Sam and neatly and sweetly put out of the picture for the night.
Later, after Sam has asked Maddie to marry him, he goes to see David. While telling David that if he really cares about Maddie he should tell her and if he doesn't then she should know that too. He tells David that she is 'real confused'. He also lists all the reasons why he (David) would be the wrong choice for Maddie.
We know that David is insecure (witness his reactions when first his brother and then his Father come to town, remember his version of how his marriage ended). The subtext of Sam's speech is "She thinks she cares about you. I'm obviously able to give her what she deserves and needs. If you care about her you'll do the right thing." The right thing in Sam's opinion for David to do is to tell Maddie that he has no feelings for leaving her free to make the obvious right choice.
David's insecurities come to the fore. He realises that Sam is 'perfect' for Maddie and that he can give her lots of material things that David can't. He can't bring himself to tell Maddie that he has no feelings for her but he is trying to do the right thing in one way by saying nothing. In short IMO David says nothing not because he doesn't care but because he cares too much and he knows if he starts talking he makes himself too vulnerable.
In the end his feeling get too much for him and he reacts in explosive ways - vis a vis 'the barrage in the garge', trashing the office. Hey no-one ever said that this pair were emotionally mature!!!
By the time Sam leaves having read the writing on the wall, it has become too late in one sense for David to speak. It is obvious by his actions that he has strong feelings for Maddie. He knows from what Sam let slip and from Maddie's nocturnal visit that she has feelings for him. He takes the cowardly way out and lets her spill her guts thinking he is Sam.
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Post by haddie mayes on May 13, 2006 2:54:04 GMT -5
Now this is one thing i don`t understand about David sleeping with another woman like that . I`m not sure of the timescale that the writers had imposed, was it a couple of weeks or months between Maddie leaving for Chicago and David sleeping with someone else. If it was only a few weeks then on this incident i think he was a bit of a pig ( now before you all shoot me down )Fair enough maybe it was wrong of Maddie just to up and leave like that without telling David but like she said he would have probably have talked her out of going. But in my mind that is no reason for David to what he did only after a few weeks. Now sleeping with this other woman probably wasn`t just about sowing his `wildoats` i think it was more to do with trying to prove to himself that he didn`t need Maddie and that he was going to get on with his life ! But it doesn`t excuse his behaviour at all , he didn`t know how long Maddie was going to be gone it might have only been for a few weeks so why couldn`t he have waited for her to make her mind up, wasn`t their relationship worth that at least.Before anyone brings it up i know what you all are thinking and yeah your`e right we know that Maddie had told David in the launderette that they were over but he must have known that it was just her way of saying i need time and space to sort through my feelings but it didn`t mean that it gave David the green light to sleep with someone else .
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Post by haddie mayes on May 13, 2006 3:12:04 GMT -5
Sorry i ended my post so abruptly but i had a little emergency with one of the kids , i`ll continue later.
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Post by adyjdy on May 13, 2006 12:50:20 GMT -5
I gotta say, I'm always a little confused that feelings run so hot toward David about sleeping with Rita. I was, in all honesty, under the impression that Maddie left him, period. I mean broke up with him, left him and that was the end of that. Were I in his shoes, I'm not sure I would have done any different.
Should he maybe have suspected she really meant, "I need time" when she said, "It's over"? Maybe, but by that standard shouldn't Maddie also be expected to act on information that is CLEAR, even obvious, but unspoken. If so, she HAD TO KNOW there was more than business and friendship between she and David when she slept with Sam. (I think she feels this guilt and it is written all over her face in the last shot in "Sam and Dave" and in the beginning of "Maddie's Turn...")
I'm not necessarily defending Dave here. I'm just saying SO much communication is unspoken between these two and if one is expected to hear the unspoken and react to it, so is the other. Maybe it's safest to say, they are really both just real jerks to each other sometimes.
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Post by maddieaddisonjr on Sept 9, 2012 19:35:29 GMT -5
I always wondered why in the world David didn't say something... anything! It never occurred to me that he said nothing because as funkycat said... David seemed to be about to tear up with the amount of emotion he was feeling. Bruce really turned it on in that scene. As far as I can remember however and as some other poster said, he is the one who started the confrontation and seemed absolutely determined to talk it out. Then when Maddie goes on the offensive, which is nothing new, he's suddenly mute with fear and insecurity? Honestly at this point it felt like the love triangle was being dragged out already. The way the scene began called for David to finally blurt out something that would unmistakably let Maddie know that he wanted her for himself, that he loved her. Instead, we get him busting up his office and then, only at Agnes' prompting, changing his mind and banging on Sam's car like a crazy person, probably scaring Maddie a little, while now demanding to talk to her. Maddie now refuses of course and runs away (a bad omen foreshadowing her behavior throughout all of season 4 unfortunately). So David's response then is to take an irrational swing at Sam. The whole scene was a little weird because since admitting to himself that he loved Maddie and finding another man at her house, David has pouted and sulked and had tantrums but as talkative as he's been for three years, he can't at the critical moment take a "reckless Dave" chance and finally tell Maddie how he feels about her? Seriously? Eh!
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