Post by haddie mayes on Jun 28, 2006 16:34:59 GMT -5
I have given this one a 9 because i love the ` that`s it that`s all we ever do!` bedroom banter and i love the` lets tell the employees we`re sleeping together` banter.And i absolutely LOVE the way David rushes out in to outer office and in front of all the employees to say that he has fallen madly , deeply in love with Maddie ( although secretly a part of me wishes that he had told every one that Maddie and he were sleepng together).I love maddies responce to David when he said that she wasn`t `there`during their time as lovers. Maddie " Who do you thinks been lying beside you - on top of you!- underneath you this past month!" It tells the viewer that theirs was a VERY physical relationship , so even though we never got to see much of you know what! we can really let our imaginations run wild with this info. ;D
I give a 9 in this episode. My 1st favourite one of all time. It has so many wonderful things...
Maddie:I must going......... (David block the door) Maddie:Back to the office............ David:Block the door. (some Blue Moon Staff block the door) Maddie:DAVID! David:No pain,just something to tell you. Maddie:David,please,don't do it. David:See that lady over there. Maddie:David,no..... David:I think....I am completly and fowling IN LOVE with her.
I've always love this part...from the 1st time I saw this epi. Wonderful!
Another moment was the Maddie's imagination in front of the mirror with Dr. Joyce Brothers. And David with Ray Charles. Great
I would only give this episode an 8. There are a lot of great moments in it - David's declaration in front of the employees, the parody of the Honeymooners and the use of Ray Charles and Dr Joyce Brothers but... I get the feeling that they were just filling time with David's big scene outside Maddie's house. I love Bruce Willis as David Addison but I think he is looking like he is out of inspiration by the time Maddie makes it to the door! Having said that, I love the fact that someone who is clinical and analysing is who Maddie imagines giving her advice while David has a legend of soul/blues complete with backing singers giving him advice. Very clever on the part of the writers!
I'm giving it a 6, partly because I'm reserving everything 5 and below for season 5. The dialogue in this one seems slow to me, and, frankly, the writer seems like they're just wasting time at several points. (D's "fight" with the would-be burglar, for one.) Of course, the dancing is great, and the sadness and confusion on both sides is lovely. There just doesn't seem to be quite as much meat on the bone here.
Having recently seen this for the first time since it was aired, I'm giving it a 5. Which I never thought I would do.... Both David and Maddie seem so miserable here, and whilst there are some good moments (ray charles esp), it just depresses me. It's better than Lunar Eclipse (of course!), but even compared to later Season 4 and early Season 5 epis, this is just painful to watch.
"You can lead a horse to water, but that doesn't make it a duck"
Post by haddie mayes on Sept 29, 2006 20:15:59 GMT -5
I loved this episode up the point of Davids little escapade outside Maddies front door And i loved Davids declaration of love Maddie speech in the outer office ( even more since i have listened to Bruces reaction to watching himself in the commentary)he just seemed blown away by it .
I think i have already voted on this one , i just wanted to add a little extra.
This is another episode that I didn't really like on its first run and my opinion didn't change after seeing it on DVD and especially after hearing the commentary.
Season 3 ended great, with the Bimmer coasting backwards into who knows what. That built up the suspense for Season 4 and THIS was the best they could come up with for the first episode? Sure, there were several relatively clever bits (Honeymooners, Ray Charles, etc) but for the most part they went on way too long and at the end of the episode we were pretty much where we started, only Maddie did the old adios.
Sure, Charles Rocket was great and the Dr Brothers thing ended with a chuckle, so it wasn't all bad. I thought the best scene, at least the start, was in the car in front of Maddie's house where she said "You don't want to know what I am" to David. I thought for SURE she was going to say the old rabbit died, but when they diverted into ambivalance....well, so did I.
exactly, I'm glad you said it before me. I give this episode a 7. The Honeymooners scene was funny at first, but it happens so often and is so looong, it gets a little dull. If not for that, I would have enjoyed it a lot more. The joke skits were too long
Post by robertanderson on Oct 27, 2006 10:55:16 GMT -5
I gave this episode a five, but the problem is do I judge it based on tv in general or by Moonlighting standards? By Moonlighting standards it wasn't one of their best, but by general standards it was very good, so I'm not saying it was a bad show at all.
So far, I've only watched two of the season 4 shows on DVD (saving them, cause the aren't making any more), this one and Come Back Little Shiska. Of the two, clearly, this one is better than Shiska by a mile. I find the Shiska episode by far the worst Moonlighting episode I've seen to date. This episode, by contrast is not as bad as many say. I was especially upset by the commentary from Glen Caron. He really seemed down on this episode and I don't know why, it isn't that bad.
The best scene is the one in the laundromat. Interestingly, this is actually a pretty posh laundromat: clean, plenty of washers and dryers, and several well stocked vending machines. Most laundrymats these days are no where near that nice, at least not around the area I live.
Anyway, despite the lack of a case, this episode does work for me. Weak points were the overly long Ray Charles scene (I'm not a fan of that type of music), and too much time spent on the Blue Mooners parts. I did think the scene with Bruce outside Maddie's door was funny. Overall: average to slightly below average episode.
Post by maddieaddisonjr on Apr 13, 2007 22:58:46 GMT -5
I do not know… ...where or how to begin with this one. The 5 points I gave it was mainly earned by most (but not all) of David's moments. To a lesser degree I enjoyed Charles Rocket and Cybill channeling Ed Norton and Alice Kramden in the Blue Mooners segments.
What happened? Were the original writers writing for the show at the beginning of season 4? Because I don’t understand why they wrote this script. This whole episode is driven by Maddie’s alleged confusion and dissatisfaction with her relationship with David. Why are we back to square two here? Why have we not moved on to a real case with a little laughter while exploring the awkwardness of a new relationship? That's exactly what this episode should have been.
I do not like they way Maddie's been written at all. In fact almost every line she speaks in this episode agitates and exhausts me and I don't understand her anymore. Madolyn Hayes is a 30-something-year old woman who has found success and some fame and money in a high profile career. She has a sense of dignity and basically knows what she wants. Also, she has dated various men, enough of them in fact to know what makes a relationship and to know who ‘a good man’ is – for her. I find it stretching my ‘suspension of disbelief’ beyond it’s elastic capacity to believe that after all that transpired at the end of season three that she has not in fact decided she wants David and wants to work at having a relationship with him.
This is my take on the end of season 3. Sam was the familiar stranger who by chance served as the one/two night stand she wanted. She was feeling lonely and wanted to break out of her routine. In my humble opinion she’d been working with the solution to her problem for the past 2½ but she still wasn’t quite ready to deal with David and herself full-on. Fine. Not good that was the truth of the matter then. Sam and Maddie haven’t been in contact for years I believe and after an accidental two day reunion Sam has the wacky idea to marry Maddie and she gets all sucked into the newness and break in the routine of her life that she imagines herself in love with him and seriously considers his proposal. (Tell me, Maddie, why did the two of you break-up in college? Why didn’t y’all get married then? Don’t the same issues exist?) The pressure is on and she sort of faces the fact that she loves David and can’t marry another man. She made the decision to dump Sam and consummate her feelings for David – continuously for about a month. She knows exactly what she wants. She knows David loves her by his actions and by his words. She also tells him directly that she loves him too. So what is the problem? Why on earth is she telling this man bubbling over with happiness just to be with her – in or out of bed – that she is sad, that she feels empty, and that they don’t have a relationship? Isn't this just a tad schitzoid?
The way the character is being written tells me that the problem is – Maddie wants a man to be exactly what she wants without having to change herself at all, without having to compromise, without having to give up anything. A relationship naturally requires some sacrifice of self from both people in order to work. Maddie doesn’t want to try with David because it would be ‘too much work’ (I think she said). Personally I don’t see much depth to her problem with David. He’s a playful, one-of-the-people kind of man – a little crude and messy sometimes. But so what? Maddie is Grey Poupon, reserved and a little stuck up but she’s got a good heart just like David. She’s used to rubbing shoulders with people who eat caviar more often than the rest of us. But so what? They are different but they can make it work if Maddie would stop being lazy about it. How many people truly find love? Something that precious is worth 'hard work.'
I liked David getting a little homeboyish as he interacted with Ray Charles. But the scene itself didn't affect the story so it was a waste.
The fake foiled robbery outside Maddie’s house lasted waayyy toooo looong and was not funny. It also didn’t help me relate to Maddie any better. How could she storm out of the car like an infant and leave David outside talking through her door all that time? That really was over-the-top b**chy and she was lucky he took her to a laundromat because if I were David I’d have kept walking when she finally came to the door.
I liked how sweet David was with her the whole time, how he tried to accommodate her craziness, how he tried to comfort her. “I’m sad that you’re sad.” He tells the whole office that he loves her. All the things he says to her that reveals a true love for her as a person and as a woman, in spite of the so-and-so she’s throwing in his face. And this is a proud man. But he wears his heart on his sleeve and Maddie is almost completely disdainful. And if that’s not enough, let’s not forget her threat to sell the agency and put him, Agnes and everyone else out of work on a whim – because today she is ‘sad and confused.’ Ah, I feel sick!
Does Maddie’s behavior towards this man make any sense to any of you? I can’t remember if I was this disgusted with ATTTM when I first saw it 20 years ago but the truth is I don’t remember much about seasons 4 or 5 so I guess that’s saying something.
I have more to write about this ep I think, but I need a break from this. Besides, I want to watch the next episode before I go to sleep. I hope it won’t give me nightmares!
This episode is such a downer and puts the characters in such bad positions for the rest of the season that I want to give it a 1, but I'll give it a 5 for good acting, Ray Charles, and the Blue Mooners.
It was interesting to listen to the commentary on this episode. I was glad to hear GGC acknowledge that the script was a mess and that he made mistakes with setting up the season. It was also interesting to hear Bruce's disappointment with the episode, the change in his character and all the melodrama that dragged the season down. Sounds like the actors were as miserably unhappy with the material as the viewers.
The biggest problem I had with the episode, which GGC and Bruce allude to but don't quite come out and say, is that this episode sets up the horrible martyr v. bitch paradigm that would drive the show this season and suck all the comedy and romance out of the show. David turns into this lovesick puppy who wears his heart on his sleeve and keeps presenting it to Maddie only to have her step on it and kick it back to him over and over. Putting aside the fact that it is totally out of character for him to be that pathetic and her to be that cruel, it's just not fun to watch such pain play out on the screen for months on end, to watch him try only to see her reject him every time up to and including gleefuly telling David upon their reunion that she married another man. It's like Bruce says on the commentary, people break up when things get that painful but Maddie and David can't break up because they're relationship is the show. And now their relationship is weighted with all this pain and damage . Hard to have snappy banter, sophomoric hijinks, and steaming hot sexual tension through all those tears and bitterness.
One of the most upsetting scenes to me in this episode, because it sets the tone for the season, is in the laundromat when Maddie admits she's being a bitch and David just looks at her. David's reaction is clearly speaking for the audience, and it's saying "he loves you, he told you so, in fact he told God and everybody, he's perfect, so what's your problem that you could spit on all this love and devotion?" It's very emotionally manipulative, like the whole season. I mean don't even get me started on the emotional manipulations of the next episode, much less Walter Bishop!! I really think GGC must have been subconsciously working through his anger at Cybill for putting him in this creative box of having to write her out by getting pregnant when he wrote this script and set the plotline for the season, and it shows in Maddie's character. She carries all the responsibility for their separation. But even worse it shows in the fact that the creative staff lost sight of the fact that the show was a comedy with dramatic elements and not the other way around.
To me Season 4 represents the creative failure of GGC, while Season 5 represents the creative failure of his replacements. Season 4 is very powerful in spots and overall well-written and rendered, but it loses its way because it wanders into and gets lost in soap opera land. GGC didn't seem to know how to maintain the comedy in the next phase of their relationship, and maybe it's unfair to criticize him too harshly given the handicaps he was working under which included C's pregnancy, B's film career, his own procrastinating work habits, and all the feuds. Season 5 on the other hand is a failure because they get to go back to comedy, but the writers don't know how to write in GGC's comic voice, which is what made the show great and is what the audience wanted back.
This is the episode I have wanted to comment on the most, but every time I watch it, I feel the energy completely sucked out of me. With or without commentary, this is the most draining, depressing episode ever done.
Why did they have to have Maddie run away? Why couldn’t she have a family crisis, like a sick parent or something, if they wanted to place her in Chicago? Then, at least, the mood of Season Four wouldn’t have been so icky and they could have avoided the whole pregnancy/got married on a train/lost the baby storyline.
Regarding the commentary, I totally disagree with Bruce’s theory about the show going downhill because the characters slept together. Hollywood, in general, always seems to say that whenever main characters get together, but to me it’s just not true. The TV industry just isn’t that good at post-sex romance and I don’t think they always get what audiences find as really sexy. Sometimes they seem to find it by stumbling upon it.
My theory is, the series lost ground when Maddie turned ambivalent that first morning after. The pact, the depressing gloominess, the running away – that’s what killed interest in their relationship. Had they remained mutually attracted and found themselves lusting for each other from afar, who knows? It might have rekindled the sexual tension…
Anyway, I feel better (sort of) for finally speaking my mind (kinda) about this episode, though am still too drained to vote.