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Post by sandra on Mar 19, 2011 6:12:01 GMT -5
I understand and share your frustration, but I think it was appropriate. She acted like she took him for granted after all that had been, and it hurt. I don't think he was only playing hard to get, he really thought she had no idea of what she had put him through. I love his speech. OMG, I disagree with you?!? LOL
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Post by diane on Mar 19, 2011 9:12:49 GMT -5
I'm with Sandra on this one......our David has been through too much! And it's a great speech....it's in contention for one of my favorite scenes......but then so are 42 others!
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 19, 2011 12:19:57 GMT -5
I guess it's just my selfish despair talking...just wanted them together together together :-)
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goldilocks
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You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 19, 2011 12:39:30 GMT -5
I guess it's just my selfish despair talking...just wanted them together together together :-) Oh don't give up so easy, Nancy! I see it the same way you see it. I don't think this speech and this kind of behaviour were appropriate there. David has been through lots of things, hard things. So has been Maddie. I really don't like that outburst of anger from David. The lady knows she has made mistakes, and she is really sorry. And she shows it. Why couldn't he just take her in his arms and give her a kiss instead of that speech of him?
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Post by sandra on Mar 19, 2011 13:02:05 GMT -5
she shows that she is sorry?? Where? And, I beg your pardon, but the things she's been through were self-inflicted, weren't they? He's been through that ordeal because she put him there by running away and hiding under that bed. Then coming back with the "good news" of being married to a stranger on a train. Then having it annulled and expecting David to just pick up everything as if nothing had happened. I don't see her showing appreciation for him holding on all that time. She's acting like she takes him for granted, and that hurts.
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Post by rose35 on Mar 19, 2011 13:04:01 GMT -5
I'm with Sandra on this one......our David has been through too much! And it's a great speech....it's in contention for one of my favorite scenes......but then so are 42 others! I agree w/Sandra & Diane. His speech was great EXCEPT for his 1 line about his slate was clean,i still dont think it was, he slept w/someone & she never found out ,if she did ,forget about it!GRR can't forgive him. Sorry LOL Anyway...... But other than that MADDIE put him through HECK! From the moment they got together she ruled the relationship they had. Then she left for 4 1/2 months,was maybe having his kid then finally comes home and is MARRIED to a stranger! Yeah id be furious at her like hed think he was a jerk for loving this woman. She gets marriage annulled and same day shes like kinda asking him out like nothing happened ,he so needed to make her sit and wait a few now for him LOL But yes i wanted them back together i couldnt stand it another miniute and thank goodness it only was during this episode hed made her sit and wait and by end they were back together planning lamaze claases and smiling and planning time to spend together.Things looked so hopeful for us all! Well we all know what happened next Oh thats another episode right? LOL JMO Love these discussions where we agree & disagree Hmm Kinda like our D&M
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Post by jpen on Mar 19, 2011 13:26:49 GMT -5
I'm with Sandra on this one......our David has been through too much! And it's a great speech....it's in contention for one of my favorite scenes......but then so are 42 others! I agree w/Sandra & Diane. His speech was great EXCEPT for his 1 line about his slate was clean,i still dont think it was, he slept w/someone & she never found out ,if she did ,forget about it!GRR can't forgive him. Sorry LOL Anyway...... But other than that MADDIE put him through HECK! From the moment they got together she ruled the relationship they had. Then she left for 4 1/2 months,was maybe having his kid then finally comes home and is MARRIED to a stranger! Yeah id be furious at her like hed think he was a jerk for loving this woman. She gets marriage annulled and same day shes like kinda asking him out like nothing happened ,he so needed to make her sit and wait a few now for him LOL But yes i wanted them back together i couldnt stand it another miniute and thank goodness it only was during this episode hed made her sit and wait and by end they were back together planning lamaze claases and smiling and planning time to spend together.Things looked so hopeful for us all! Well we all know what happened next Oh thats another episode right? LOL JMO Love these discussions where we agree & disagree Hmm Kinda like our D&M I'm with you all, too. His speech--and Maddie's reaction, Cybill does it so beautifully--is painful to watch, but justified in my opinion. David had put himself out there, after 3 years of loving this woman...only to have her play stickball with his guts, not once, but several times. I can't blame him for lashing out... ... and, frankly, I think Maddie needed to hear it. She needed to understand exactly what she had put him through, not only personally, but on a business level as well. I don't blame him for needing time and space to get over that, and to trust her again. That said, I definitely feel the spark of hope in the last scene...and the fact that it's turned to dust in "Womb" is devastating to me. But that's another discussion.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 19, 2011 15:16:28 GMT -5
Well...girls no one is questioning David's suffering, but don't forget why Maddie did the things she did. In my opinion they were both guilty. Besides I don't think Maddie was expecting David to forget the past and continue as if nothing happend. She just wanted him to stop avoiding her. I don't know... I just can't see her being so miserable, and I don't like David being mean to her, especially in her condition.
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Post by sandra on Mar 19, 2011 16:07:09 GMT -5
Hmmm... why did she do the things she did? I know you think he was guilty of not declaring his love for her in words. OK, just for the sake of argument, let's say he made a mistake there and should have given her reassurance in those first weeks. Let's say he was guilty about her confusion. OK. That could make an excuse for her running away and avoiding the situation (even if it surely would have been better to stay and try to work it out). But what about the rest?? - she extended her hideaway for 4 1/2 months and avoided contact with him - she had no intention of telling him about her pregnancy, he had to learn it from a third person - she married a stranger on a train - ...and expected him to find something nice to say about it - she expected him to behave as if nothing ever had happened when she corrected that last mistake Don't you think after all she had put him through he had the right to be a little angry?? And the right to show that anger? Why does he have to hold his peace and to grin and bear it - just because she has come to her senses? I don't see him being mean (he could have called her as cold and unfeeling as a toilet seat, but he didn't, did he? That would have been mean, yes), he just spoke out what was moving him in that moment, and IMO he had every right to do that, especially because in the same moment he nevertheless made sure that he would be there for her! I really think she needed to be told all these things - and it has nothing to do with punishing her or anything - had he wanted to do that or to play hard to get he wouldn't have assured her in the same sentence that she still could rely on him. If you want to call that my typical male POV, well, then I'm guilty about it. I can live with that.
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goldilocks
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You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
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Post by goldilocks on Mar 19, 2011 16:37:56 GMT -5
Ahhh I knew that. Tons of disagreements! But it's okay, I love to read different POVs, that's the essense of the whole thing, isn't it? Okay, let's see: - she extended her hideaway for 4 1/2 months and avoided contact with him ---> because she found out about the pregnancy and she didn't avoid anything because there was nothing to avoid, he didn't contact her. - she had no intention of telling him about her pregnancy, he had to learn it from a third person-----> He was the first person she called as she found it out. But he was too busy geting horizonty with that another girl - she married a stranger on a train- ----> she was afraid/confused/ashamed of being a pregnant woman without a husband, besides she was not sure whether David would take her back. Childish and very Maddie-like. - ...and expected him to find something nice to say about it - ----> again childish and very Maddie-like. - she expected him to behave as if nothing ever had happened when she corrected that last mistake-------> no, she wanted him to stop avoiding her. And yes, he had the right to be a little angry. And he was. And she saw it. Still don't like the speech But still LOVE this board, you people are great-great!
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Post by sandra on Mar 19, 2011 17:03:13 GMT -5
Aha. Well, yes, differnt POVs, definitely. why was her finding out about the pregnancy a reason to extend her stay for 4 1/2 months?? wasn't that the best reason to come home and try to figure it out? And didn't she order him not to contact her? Ah, I forgot - he was supposed to know that in reality she wanted him to call... oh, so she tried one time to call him. Well. Great effort. yes, exactly that was the reason. And not anything he had done to her. same as above. but without giving him reason to do so, eg trying to explain her actions and giving a heartfelt apology. And thus it looked to him like she was taking him for granted and expecting him to just go on with business as usual. It's not just because you're a woman you can expect to always get away with every mistake. That was just my point. And you are great-great too; Maddie should have had a female friend like you by her side.
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Post by diane on Mar 19, 2011 21:37:23 GMT -5
I absolutely understand and can justify much of what Maddie did, but I think she needed to be set straight, which is what I think David did with his outburst.
For her to be going on blithely assuming they were going to pick up where they left off with no residual feelings was naive, or selfish....and I think she needed David to shock her into getting it!
I don't see Maddie as being childish....but I do see her falling into self absorbed some of the time. David needed a great big sign that said, "Appreciate me!".......in lieu of that, I'll take his outburst!!
(and I would love to revisit a conversation on Maddie's motives for getting married, but I guess we'd better go back to the Tracks thread for that one!).
Nice discussion!
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Post by jpen on Mar 19, 2011 22:50:56 GMT -5
(and I would love to revisit a conversation on Maddie's motives for getting married, but I guess we'd better go back to the Tracks thread for that one!). I'd be up for that--there's a whole term paper waiting to be written on that subject!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 19, 2011 23:12:39 GMT -5
I've often wondered had Cybill not needed maternity leave how the writers would have written Maddie. Just thinking about no Walter opens so many windows for a different end to season 4.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Mar 21, 2011 7:44:39 GMT -5
I've thought about that too bees . Now, I've been mulling this episode over, and I think my negative reaction to this season finale (when I know it's popular amongst many of you) is down to the fact that it is followed by Season 5. If Maddie and David had got their happy ending then I would be just fine and dandy with this turning of the tables: Maddie pursuing David. I would be more than happy! I agree that she deserved a telling off and he does that just great...but then knowing what happens in season 5 I just feel that this is the start of the pals thing - meh! Yeah, I think that's it. I could totally go with it if I knew that they properly ended up together - in fact he could spend lots of episodes being deservedly mad with her if we had that olive branch in sight.
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