did season 4 kill Moonlighting?

[gioiaalbi]

Moonlighting died the death of a thousand paper cuts. And I hate to be the lone voice in the wilderness but I just re-watched all five seasons of ML on DVD and I find season 4 to be the one that killed the show. I realize that Cybill was pregnant and Bruce took advantage of the time to go shoot Die Hard and that both of those predicaments forced NINE episodes of ML to be without both of them on screen together. The writers did what they could with claymation and phone calls to try and make it work but it just didn't. The acting was excellent, some of the best work that both of them did, but the show lost it's reason for existence without the characters together.

Then the writers' strike took away FIVE episodes from season 4; a crying shame considering both Cybill and Bruce were back and ready to work. But what really killed the show and took away the audience was the fact that the network wanted ML's time slot for Roseanne. Consequently, ML was preempted several times during that final year and then the show moved to Sunday night...the final nail in its coffin. I think that everyone directly involved wanted the show to be the best that it could be...and, in hindsight, it still was better than most shows on TV.

It's funny. You listen to the commentaries and Glenn blames himself for the death of ML; he says that writing in the pregnancy at all was a mistake and certainly Maddie's marriage to Walter Bishop was a HUGE mistake. Cybill blames herself because of the pregnancy. And, Bruce is just plain grateful that he got the opportunity to do Die Hard but was admits that he was ready at the end of season 3 to move on. All of them look back on it now and are proud and amazed at the work that they did. The testament to their great work is that we all feel passionate about it 20 years later to still be talking about it.

[graycav56]

Hey Gioiaalbi (not sure how to shorten that into a nickname, but somebody will try), welcome to the fray.

I think there are numerous opinions as to what 'killed' ML, but I think you nailed it with your comment that it was the death of a thousand cuts. A lot of folks (but I suspect not a majority of folks on this site) consider Dave and Maddie consumating their relationship as the series' "Jump the Shark" moment. I disagree.

What killed our show?

Glenn's insistence of making every episode a movie rather than a TV show that led to constant stress on the cast and crew and endless delays and reruns.

ABC not realizing that the quality of ML meant that it could not operate on the same weekly schedule as inane sitcoms, and not developing a rotating schedule with ML and another show where they could be on, say, every other week like the old NBC Mystery Movie formula.

The writers strike, as you said, crushing the production just when it needed to get back in rhythm.

Bruce having a wonderful opportunity to leap to the big screen.

Cybill having to deal with a little girl PLUS baby twins.

My killers: The Walter fiasco and way they treated the END of Maddie's pregnancy. The first took Maddie so far out of character that it felt like you were watching a completely different show. The second part just ripped out your heart.

Yup, great show. Even today.

[diane]

My short answer to the topic is a resounding NO!

Season 4 was difficult, but I would challenge you to find a loyal ML viewer who was not glued to their set during the ups and downs of season 4. As you said, there was some phenomenal acting in that season, and the viewers certainly had emotional investment. And the writing was still good, even if the show did become a little bit more soap operaish.

Gray has mentioned almost all that I think were the straws.....first, the Writer's Strike, during which, quite honestly, lots of people found other things to do. But I don't think that was the death knell. I think there were plenty of people waiting for the December premier of ML. But the cavalier way that the loss of the baby was treated in "Womb with a View" caused fans to run away in droves. This is proven by the loss of viewership following that episode. And it was never followed up by proper grieving, or bonding on the part of Maddie and David.....but an evening being stuck in the elevator, and by the morning, presto....songs were sung and the baby was miraculously never discussed again! Ridiculous!

Then season 5.......the writers who did remain lost their point of view, new writers didn't even know or understand M&D and their relationship, and the whole thing became foreign to us. Sure there were a couple of fun episodes, but the actions that were assigned to both Maddie and David were not true to the characters.

diane

PS...Can I get some opinions here? When the writers strike occurred, would the writers have been working on season 4 episodes, or season 5? When you look back at the time line, in most seasons, they didn't do much after March, which was when "The Flesh was Made Word" was aired. Do you think "Flesh" was supposed to be the final episode of season 4, or would there have been more?

[rose35]

Well in my opinion: Season 5 killed the show big time! I agree with you Diane on what you said. As sad as it was that M/D were apart most of season 4, B/C really gave absolutely terrific performances. Yes it got more Soap Operay, but there was this hope that Maddie had to come back sometime in S4 and that things would be better when that happened, yes we could have done w/o the WALTER sidetrack once we got them back togetherbut then we wouldnt have had MHGM LOL but also in the end of s4 there was so much hope for them as a couple and as a future family.
Season 5 starts out horribly wrong and though we do get a few good funny episodes and a few glimpses of M/D love where you think maybe they can fix this, then BOOM it continues to go down hill. The whole Annie fiasco could have been handled so much better , we could have and should have had a different ending to season 5 than we got. Ok again just my little ole opinion

[beesnbears]

Season 4 certainly had me glued to the TV and pining for M/D all in between each show!! And it did have some of the very best work from Bruce and Cybill, not to mention Eva Marie Saint and Robert Weber.

My opinion...way too many things hit the fan at the same time....strike, Cybill's pregnancy, and then some writer choices that, had they gotten their act together, they could have rescued the show....i.e., Maddie and David dealing with the loss of the baby and LE not opening with Annie and David together and ending with M/D not really together.

It is all very frustrating and raises my blood pressure....GGGRRRR!!!

[sinceifell4u]

Everyone makes great sense here, IMO, I feel the tragedy in "Womb" did great damage. Fantastically written I think, loved it until the very end...the "event" was extremely serious thus too heavy for ML.

We watched for the highs and lows yes, but that was devastating! Viewers felt and feel short changed. ML is about Maddie and David's love overcoming all; be it their differences or any obstacles presented.

That's why a ML feature length movie is necessary... the regrets among the creator, cast, writers... not with holding the fans, deserve proper closure. I believe it can be done...and done well~

[lin212]

I too agree with all the comments already made. For me WWAV was the beginning of the end. Season 4 left us hopeful for David and Maddie's future together, but Glenn sucked the life right out of it with the events in Womb.

[beesnbears]

I know exactly what everyone is saying, but I have always felt that as horrible as the end of Womb was, had the writers that followed this episode gotten a clue as to who Maddie and David were they could have turned the show around or at the very least had a slightly better ending than LE.

I can even forgive them for Annie because I can understand the arcs purpose, but them thinking that David and Maddie had dealt with the death of the baby was heart wrenching.

On a personal level, I know that it takes more than a few songs to recover from losing a baby.

I will always wonder what GGC would have done had he still been around. He knew Maddie and David better than anyone.

[maddieaddisonjr]

Season 4 was nuts for sure, but critical injury to the show was caused this horrible season 5 opener. This was possibly curable but the true death blow began with Between a Yuck and a Hard Place. The writing was definitely on the wall in CAPS. The slapstick and the complete romantic retreat and withered chemistry between the two leads rolled ML down a steep slippery slope. But there was no excuse for the drivel that is Lunar Eclipse - no excuse at all.

[bertviola]

I think season 4 was the peak of Moonlighting, but it was really season 5 and the poor choices the writers made that killed the show. After all Maddie had put Dave through, everyone wanted to see him get some kind of reward(like being happy with Maddie) or for her to get punished(or both). Why couldn't the writers do just that? Like say by letting David be with Terri? Or Maddie marrying Sam instead of Walter cause of the baby? And then it turns out it isn't his? Or just have Maddie chase David, after having him chase her for season 3 and 4? I could see a lot of potential in Maddie as a single mom, in love with David, but he's with someone else or refuses her and Maddie has to swallow her pride and fight for him. I could see episodes of Bert and Agnes, babysitting Baby Hayes. Heck, I actually always enjoy seeing those two more than Maddie and Dave in most of season 5, because at least there is progress in their relationship. Maddie and Dave never even move together. It just sort of fizzles out.