Post by beesnbears on Dec 16, 2008 20:13:26 GMT -5
Man, I wish I still had a vcr hooked up to watch all of my old tapes. LOL!! OJ Simpson and Seagrams's, wow!!
Lin--I agree about her fighting for her life with Albert. She desperately wanted him to change things back and stop the Beamer!!
And, I also thing Cybill was fantastic in this!! Anyone ever notice when she is totally in the zone the veins on her forehead pop up? Especially when she cries. Just wonderful....and stunningly beautiful!!
5. Which vignette leaves the largest impression? I would have to say both, but in different ways. The scene in Agnes' office is very powerful because it causes Maddie to see herself in a most unflattering light. She steps outside of herself and understands how others see her. As for the scene with David, Cheryl and Richie, she starts off pretty glib. As the scene progresses, however, she becomes more agitated with the thought of losing David. By the end, she is screaming at him, recalling their times together, frustrated that he doesn't remember. When Albert reminds her that they never happened, she is shaken. She suddenly realizes how important David is to her.
Make it unanimous on admiration for Cybill's performance. From her response upon learning of her Aunt's death to the "Hot Damn" (with a tinge of Memphis accent that I love) to the battle in the Bimmer this was one of her strongest performances. Plus she looked absolutely spectacular.
Interesting that she had a high collar on in this episode, just like TTEBC!
Last Edit: Dec 16, 2008 20:21:00 GMT -5 by graycav56
I am really torn on this one, but I would have to say that I can buy Maddie saying it. I am basing this on her truly inner, romantic self...the side of her that we don't see often enough. If we were just to look at Maddie Hayes as she portrays herself to most of the world, it would not ring true. For those who know her true heart, however, it is possible.
Post by MoonBeemer on Dec 16, 2008 20:43:37 GMT -5
I’m like Diane in that I really like this episode almost too much to pick it apart. However, just as it required Maddie to suspend her beliefs/disbeliefs, I felt it also asked that of the viewer in places, such as...
a ) Does anyone really believe that David would just let Maddie leave the office so upset?
b) Granted her approach probably could've been better, but was it really all that unreasonable of Maddie to expect the employees to work some of Christmas week (the holiday excluded) to fulfill the needs of the agency? I mean, how many folks here get a whole week off at Christmas?
c) Maddie… getting smashed at a bar…of her on volition???
d) Maddie “contemplating” a swandive from that highrise roof? (more on that in Question 1)
e) Now David might make some fourth wall excuse about limited footage being available, but it’s interesting that Maddie’s life flashing before her eyes consisted mostly of David…this indicates that she did very little living before he came into her life and/or her feelings for him are even greater than she pretends not to let on. Also, it’s odd that Richie made the cut, yet Sam and Annie were nowhere to be seen...
f) Not that I’m complaining, but I find it hard to believe that Maddie would pin David to a Wobblie desk, especially with other Wobblies present and at such a preliminary stage in M&D’s relationship. Furthermore, what exactly happened after that clinch…and why was there nere a mention of it ever again? Enquiring minds want to know!
My favorite scene is the last one. As she enters the Blue Moon office, all is dark and quiet. She climbs onto the chair to hang a decoration and the voice comes out of the dark. The apologies...the tears, the smiles and yes, graycav, the wonderful scene on the desk!
Post by beesnbears on Dec 16, 2008 20:58:12 GMT -5
I keep thinking about the question about Maddie's strengths and it reminds me of how we view Maddie throughout the rest of the series. I am not sure if I can explain what I am thinking, but I will try.
For every place where we are shown something that we may not particularly like about her or something that David would like to change about her, we are shown the other side of her personality. Like in "All Creatures...." we see her resistance of a superior being, yet we are given her heartfelt feelings with the confessional scene. In "Man Who Cried...." we are shown what her standards are for how men should treat women and how marriage should never be taken lightly (forget Walter for a second!) and then shown how she does believe in spontaneity to some extent.
OK, I am not going to go through every ep like this...I know y'all are glad .....but I feel the entire show really does light up her ability to be the tough business owner who, when you think about it realistically, is right about office decorum, work habits of employees, thinking things through carefully before making some huge decision., etc......
Probably not making sense here, but it reminds me also of the ep where she says something like "Why am I doing this? Do I really deserve what is happening and had I known what I know now I would have played harder and slept around more!"
Not an exact quote, but she could have said this very thing in "It's A Wonderful Job"
a: I suppose he would have followed her to get her to change her mind about McGillicuddy, but then he wasn't aware of Aunt Ruth yet, so perhaps he figured to let her cool off and reengage at a later time.
b: This lines up with my feeling that Maddie was made to be the heavy here for no good reason. I get Christmas Day off. Period. If I want anything else it comes off annual leave, and then only if I am caught up. Considering my previous life, I worked a LOT of Christmas Days...some in places that didn't really want me there! Maddie's first responsibility was to make Blue Moon a viable company and she was doing a great job. Look at the difference from the first year, where they were BEGGING for clients. Here she has almost too many! (Maybe she needed to get some more temps from the agency she found Bert).
c: Well, she went out to get smashed in I am Curious and did drink from time to time home alone...
e: They hadn't met Sam and Annie at this point, at least the viewers hadn't, so that would have been confusing.
f: I originally thought after this they went back and, well, consumated the relationship, but it was ignored from here on.
Last Edit: Dec 16, 2008 21:12:21 GMT -5 by graycav56
Post by beesnbears on Dec 16, 2008 21:15:37 GMT -5
I agree with what you are saying about suspending our beliefs, etc.. I think we do that to some extent in our own dreams and this was the way the writers got around what was really real and what was not so real. So we would buy into Maddie's revelations at the end of the episode.
I am definitely an "enquiring mind" and it has always really bugged me that they chose to let Maddie lay a big one on David and then completely ignore it.....like the entire show was a dream sequence!! I am like gray---I liked it a lot---- but where did this go in future eps???
Post by MoonBeemer on Dec 16, 2008 21:19:49 GMT -5
1) Before Bees gave me a new perspective with her answer to this, I found it a stretch that the overall successful & stable Maddie on the rooftop would contemplate suicide after a bad day at the office and the death of a relative she never mentioned before (after all, how close can they be when Maddie would rather spend her free time with her goldfish & CDs of a dead guy than visiting the lady?). I don’t even think disappointing her parents would be a qualifier for such a drastic act. Now the alternate universe Maddie that never opened Blue Moon was at a different point and might be another story (but I’m hard pressed to believe that she would not have returned to her parents if such hard times had befallen her – then again, her pride could’ve kept her from doing so).
2) I do feel this episode was true to the original premise of It’s A Wonderful Life, with a Moonlighting spin. It might have fit better a bit sooner in the series, and especially prior to Man Who Cried Wife as Maddie appeared on better terms with the employees, particularly McGillicuddy. Then again, it required a rare Christmas window with significant enough M&D development, so that probably limited their options.
Moonbeemer, I agree totally with all of graycav's responses - except for "f" perhaps! graycav, I guess I never thought too much about what happened after that great kiss - what is wrong with me?? Seriously, Moonbeemer, David and Maddie weren't really in the preliminary stages of their relationship. Blonde on Blonde is only a couple of episodes away, but you are right, it is never mentioned again. Almost seems as if the kiss was part of the dream...like it never really happened.
b: This lines up with my feeling that Maddie was made to be the heavy here for no good reason.
Thank you, graycav and Moonbeemer! I was feeling the same way as I watched this today. The opening scene, where she's fallen asleep with papers in her arms (and all over her bed--there's a poignant metaphor for you!!), and then tells her mother, "I've only gotten a few hours' sleep", makes it very clear how hard she is willing to work to make this business successful. And part of the reason she works so hard is so her employees (who are often treated like/referred to as her and David's "children") have a paycheck...in spite of the fact that they are sometimes NOT working very hard.
Now, of course, Maddie has some things to learn about finding balance in her life...there's truth in David's shot at her ("Just remember, a good job doesn't love you back")--but she's by no means a Scrooge. IMO.
"I don't want you losing any more sleep over me." "Believe me, if and when I ever find myself 'over' you, the last thing I'll be thinking about is sleeping."
Post by MoonBeemer on Dec 16, 2008 21:27:34 GMT -5
3) In terms of the vignettes, Maddie’s strength really shines through when she’s pleading her cases to the AU Agnes about having heart in business, AU David about their burgeoning relationship, with Alfred about wanting to live, and (as Bees said) it comes full circle when she returns to apologize to McGillicuddy & gang. It requires great strength from her to even be receptive to Albert (she is an Atheist after all), then to be so vulnerable and humble within that experience and with others. To some degree, Maddie’s strength is also present in her conversations with her parents and in standing her ground with the employees (especially the confrontation with McGillicuddy), where she also steps outside herself (in a more figurative sense) in allowing some rare underlying emotion to seep through her usual cool composure.
4) I think Gray & others called it with the Blue Moon/City of Angels discrepancy. Nice job, essed crew!