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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2011 11:06:06 GMT -5
Well....first of all there is this difference between "the man you love" and "the man you sleep with", unfortunatelly, they do not always coincide, maybe that is why she didn't want anybody to know about their "bed relationships"? Try to see it that way: David never takes her on dates, they don't go anyway together as a couple, but they sleep together. If now everybody find it out what will they think? How will they call it? Exactly! An AFFAIR. But she doesn't want an affair, she loves him, she wants romance. You know, the problem is that we know how much he loves her and how much he cares about her, because we see all these scenes and hear all the speeches (like that one he gives Mr.Hayes), but Maddie never gets such a chance. When he is with her he says nothing, not a thing, not a syllable. And that makes her confused. If only she knew all that we know.... This episode drives me crazy girl Well, though I'm "David's girl" I have to agree with Goldi. There is a huge difference between "the man you love" and "the man you sleep with" like she said. Maddie is not sure if David loves her the way she loves him... and infortunately she didn't hear the speech to Mr. Hayes... if she had heard the speech, the things would have been different...
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Post by sandra on Jan 29, 2011 16:17:28 GMT -5
OK, goldie, here I come with my promised answer... Oh, Sandra.... I still can't agree with you on this point, but I'm trying very very very hard... honestly I appreciate that, goldie... Do you really believe any of them sees it that way? I don't think they have ever been just friends. Lying underneath, there has always been that promise of there-could/should-be-something-more. And I think both of them knew it. I can't imagine that Maddie ever seriously thought David saw her only as a friend. Beg to differ, sis. There may be friendships that evolve to a relationship, in other words friends becoming lovers. But I don't see the M/D relationship as an example of such. And I think both of them - even Maddie - didn't see it this way (at least deep, deep, deep down...). Of course, unfortunately, we are talking about the king and queen of denial... I think she knows (dd dd, see above ) that she is special to him. I agree that David quite often behaves as if he had the superficial attitude toward women and relationships, but he has also always shown that he has high moral standards and believes in love. And sincerely: during the whole time, just name one occasion where Maddie could have had a serious reason to believe David would base a relationship of his only on sexual attraction and physical beauty? Has he ever been with a woman just because of her physical beauty in those past 3 years? Has he ever been with any other woman in those past 3 years? No! On the contrary, the relationships we (and Maddie) know for sure about were based on deep feelings (at least from David's side), and both times they ended because he was mistreated by the female, and not otherwise! And: Maddie knows that too, she knows David's true attitude towards love and relationships. Remember her dream in "Big Man On Mulberry Street"? Not for one moment, not even in her sub-conscious, she thought that David was the one to have mistreated the woman. I agree, goldie, that there is a huge difference between the man you love and the man you just sleep with. But, to Maddie, David is the man she loves (you're saying that yourself!) and not just the man she sleeps with! Therefore I still don't understand - and I don't believe anyone can make me understand it dd dd - why she wanted to hide it. Agree, agree, agree, goldie! She loves him, she wants romance, not just an affair. But again: why doesn't David take her out, why don't they go anywhere? Because she doesn't want to. OK, granted, we don't know if he's ever asked her, but remember the way she puts it herself: they say goodbye at 5:30, and every day she swears to herself that "this" will never happen again, and somehow they always end up together. Doesn't sound to me as if she ever encouraged him to do thos things "normal" couples do. Besides: this are the eighties, and Maddie has pointed out often enough that she's a modern and independent woman. Does she really have to wait to be "asked" or "taken" out? After having shown so much reluctance to him, why can't she signal him now what she really wants and just say: hey, tonight I feel like having some cheeseburgers instead of fleeing every day at 5:30 from the office. How can you know this? OK, we'll never know for sure, but after having seen the development during the Sam arc at the end of season 3, I don't think that during the whole 4 weeks he never told her he loved her. But, I think obviously he didn't make it clear enough, there I agree with you, goldie (did I say that?? ). Yes, I cannot say it often enough: I'm a David's girl, but I never refrain from saying when I think he is wrong. So: he knew from the start that the woman he loves is a helluva piece o' work, and he should have known that to convince her about his feelings, about them as a couple, it takes more. And he should have paid more attention to her feelings, so he would have noticed earlier her uneasiness and could have done something about it. As an excuse for him I have only that probably he was so overwhelmed with his own happiness, that he couldn't even imagine in his wildest dreams that she maybe was not as happy as him. Agree, agree, agree! And I hope you'll help me through the next days and weeks when I continue my painful way through season 4!
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goldilocks
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You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 30, 2011 6:40:10 GMT -5
Do you really believe any of them sees it that way? I don't think they have ever been just friends. ... I can't imagine that Maddie ever seriously thought David saw her only as a friend. You know, yes. I do seriously believe that Maddie and David were friends. Moreover I do believe they are still friends now, even after they've become lovers. Their friendship has not gone. And it is great! What's wrong with being friends? I think it is so great if a person you are in love with is your friend as well! I wish I had it that way... And sincerely: during the whole time, just name one occasion where Maddie could have had a serious reason to believe David would base a relationship of his only on sexual attraction and physical beauty? Has he ever been with a woman just because of her physical beauty in those past 3 years? Has he ever been with any other woman in those past 3 years? The answer is "NO", he has not been with another woman in those 3 years. We know it, because we've seen all the episodes. But Maddie doesn't know that. I think you won't deny the fact that David behaves like a "playboy" telling all these cute stories about how he's spent his weekends! Reember that? He does everything to show her how great and how colorful his weekend was! We know that it is probably just a show, he wants her to be jealous, or just doesn't want to show his real feelings. We know all these. But Maddie, how can she know that? If the guy behaves like this, of course she will think he is a macho! He is handsome, he is funny, he is...GREAT! Why wouldn't this guy have a couple of girl-friends? I agree, goldie, that there is a huge difference between the man you love and the man you just sleep with. But, to Maddie, David is the man she loves (you're saying that yourself!) and not just the man she sleeps with! Exactly dear! You've said it: TO MADDIE he is the man she both loves and not just the man she sleeps with! TO MADDIE! But what about David? Does he feel the same? How could she know that? HOW? Agree, agree, agree, goldie! She loves him, she wants romance, not just an affair. But again: why doesn't David take her out, why don't they go anywhere? Because she doesn't want to. OK, granted, we don't know if he's ever asked her, but remember the way she puts it herself: they say goodbye at 5:30, and every day she swears to herself that "this" will never happen again, and somehow they always end up together. Doesn't sound to me as if she ever encouraged him to do thos things "normal" couples do. Disagree! Maddie would love to go out with him! And she did make it clear once when she said that she knows how it is to spend 24 hours in bed with him, but she doesn't know how it is to go somewhere and to eat hamburgers or something... See? Just admit it: he never bothers to plan a date. This episode drives me crazy girl Agree, agree, agree! And I hope you'll help me through the next days and weeks when I continue my painful way through season 4! Of course I will! It is fun I love love love our cute little disagreements
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 7:46:22 GMT -5
Do you really believe any of them sees it that way? I don't think they have ever been just friends. ... I can't imagine that Maddie ever seriously thought David saw her only as a friend. You know, yes. I do seriously believe that Maddie and David were friends. Moreover I do believe they are still friends now, even after they've become lovers. Their friendship has not gone. And it is great! What's wrong with being friends? I think it is so great if a person you are in love with is your friend as well! I wish I had it that way... I do believe it, too, goldie. It should always be that way (lover = also friend) I just said I don't believe they ever were ONLY friends. That's what makes it so difficult. Ah, well, great stuff for our 'essed heads and hearts, isn't it?
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 30, 2011 7:56:06 GMT -5
AddisonHayes, that is exactly what I mean! So happy you are with me on this! It is so sad and so unfair that she never knew abot David being in prison, never heard his wonderfull speech, there are so many these sweet moments of devotion which David performed again and again and again... Love him so much
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goldilocks
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You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 30, 2011 8:01:11 GMT -5
You know, yes. I do seriously believe that Maddie and David were friends. Moreover I do believe they are still friends now, even after they've become lovers. Their friendship has not gone. And it is great! What's wrong with being friends? I think it is so great if a person you are in love with is your friend as well! I wish I had it that way... I do believe it, too, goldie. It should always be that way (lover = also friend) I just said I don't believe they ever were ONLY friends. That's what makes it so difficult. Ah, well, great stuff for our 'essed heads and hearts, isn't it? Yeah, it defenitely IS The problem is: Maddie is satisfied with David-friend, she accepts (mostly ) him the way he is and.... she even loves all these crazy things about him But to accept him the way he is as her lover? That's something different. She wants him to change, but without "changing himself" if you know what I mean ? Remember her night mare with a freak David Addison - Mr. Perfect? She wanted him to change but to stay the same...
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 8:29:00 GMT -5
Yeah, it defenitely IS The problem is: Maddie is satisfied with David-friend, she accepts (mostly ) him the way he is and.... she even loves all these crazy things about him But to accept him the way he is as her lover? That's something different. She wants him to change, but without "changing himself" if you know what I mean ? Remember her night mare with a freak David Addison - Mr. Perfect? She wanted him to change but to stay the same... I know exactly what you mean, goldie, and on that point we can finally agree!!! Yes, in spite of all their fights she wants him mostly just the way he is, I'm thinking especially of "My Fair David" here, when she told him she missed the old David and wanted him back. But having him - being as he is - as a lover could be quite demanding (I know that, as it is in my good fortune to be married to a similar sample of guy... we've been together for 17 years now, and still nobody manages to drive me crazy like he does... and sometimes he enjoys that! ).
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 8:30:17 GMT -5
there are so many these sweet moments of devotion which David performed again and again and again... Love him so much goldie, we can agree on this point, too
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 16:42:10 GMT -5
Hey, I like that little discussion here - I'm looking foward to more posts.
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 16:54:59 GMT -5
Jump in, AddisonHayes! Contribution always welcome!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 16:58:28 GMT -5
Well, ok, but I'm quite bad in English, but I'll give my best shot!
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 17:21:42 GMT -5
Cowpatties!! This is no grammar competition here! Give us a crossfire!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 30, 2011 17:44:02 GMT -5
there are so many these sweet moments of devotion which David performed again and again and again... Love him so much goldie, we can agree on this point, too ahhhhhh, I knew it all the time
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 30, 2011 17:46:40 GMT -5
Well, ok, but I'm quite bad in English, but I'll give my best shot! AddisonHayes, just do it It sounds like fun I'm looking forward to your comments !
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Post by sandra on Jan 30, 2011 18:16:27 GMT -5
Hey goldie, love your new avatar. Is that from "'Twas the episode before Christmas"?
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