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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 10:55:39 GMT -5
Him trying to justify his vacation with this Claudine Longet copycat by blaming it on Maddie's lack of appreciation for him is just, well, wrong. Oh gray, you just made me giggle.....do you think anyone on this forum but you and I are old enough to remember Claudine Longet? Maybe you'd better explain.
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 11:09:47 GMT -5
1. The original working title of this episode was “A Blast from the Past”, which was changed to “Knowing Her”. Any insights into why the change? Which title do you prefer?
We're all on the same wave length here. David gets the opportunity to really know his former "roommate", and we also get some great insight into the "her" who is Maddie.
2. Is there any significance to Gillian walking into Maddie’s office on a day that Maddie absolutely looks the worst we have ever seen her?
I am not sure what to think about the beginning of this episode. ML always flows the beginning of the story together, and to me, the rain/tire/mess situation doesn't seem to relate to the rest of the case. I guess I am grasping at straws to try and find the writers' intent. And it seemed to me that Gillian is shot through that soft focus lens, looking almost ethereal, versus Maddie looking down and dirty (for her!).
But believe me, folks....I'd sell my soul to look like Maddie , even on that rainy morning. AND, they certainly made up for making her messy in the beginning....she is absolutely drop dead gorgeous in the rest of the episode.
And isn't she glorious when Agnes says good morning to her after she enters the office? I've said it before and I will say it again, nobody does a slow burn quite like Cybill.
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 11:20:09 GMT -5
3. What new things if any do we find out about David from the scene in Gillian’s hotel suite?
In addition to learning about David's commitment to a previous serious relationship, I think we get another glimpse into the vulnerability of David. David seems to do everything with his whole heart and soul...and when he falls, he falls hard. Our David shows a little naivete regarding matters of the heart which is both charming and endearing.
4. When does Maddie stop being intrigued by the relationship with Gillian and start being jealous? Does she realize it?
I think once Maddie finds out that David went to Gillian's hotel room, she starts to simmer, and when David asks her to meet Harlan, she starts to boil. I am not sure she actually knows why she is so angry ........perhaps she feels that it is not appropriate for David to be asking her to run interference for old girlfriends.
But I think the more Maddie sees, the madder she gets.......first because she cannot understand that David can't see he is being played. Then at the police station, she sees how serious it is, and I think she realizes there is a good shot she could lose him. That's when I think she realizes she is jealous....hence her surprising admission before the funeral.
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 11:25:45 GMT -5
5. When Maddie and David have their overlapping dialogue in David’s office – would it have made a difference if it had been a normal conversation, in which they actually listened to each other?
I believe the overlapping dialogue did exactly what it was intended to do here......WE were supposed to hear what the two of them were saying, but neither of them were. I think the picture is painted so that the two of them are so preoccupied with their own issues, they just can't get out of their own heads.
Had the conversation occurred as a normal conversation, I think it would have been a huge fight......first of all with Maddie saying she has jeopardized more significant relationships than THIS by speaking her mind.....David would have gotten hurt....the she would have had to continue to tell him how he was allowing Gillian to pull the wool over his eyes.....WOW -- we could have had a huge knock down drag out!
6. When Maddie says “You idiot!”….is she only speaking to David, or might part of the utterance be for her?
Lots of idiots in this episode....'nuff said!
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 11:42:49 GMT -5
7. The rose…. Should he have or should he not have left it? Why didn’t he?
Of course he should have....but that would have eliminated a whole lot of "is he is or is he ain't"
As much as I would have loved to have seen it, I think it was the right move for both the writers and David. This whole issue with Gillian had to be a traumatizing experience....one which you just don't get over real quickly.
There are two things about this I adore....one, that David smiles so sweetly as he is writing/saying the word "love". And secondly, the expression on his face as he crumbles the note, picks up the rose and departs......I bet he was saying.."I AM an idiot" to himself.
8. I'm projecting forward into the show’s future for this question: Gillian’s treatment of David was quite awful. Why does she not evoke the fan emotion…dare I say, hatred….that Annie does?
Oh boy.....I am going to be unpopular for this one. I feel that Gillian is by far the more evil villain. She deliberately sought David out to use him for her own ulterior motives, and hurt him in the process.
I think the whole issue on why she is not hated more is the timing. Had this not been season 2, but 4 or 5, it would have been a whole different fan reaction.
I have never really considered Annie evil.....I guess because her character was almost a "had to be". Yes, she was unfeeling towards Maddie, but I think that the fact that David's full intent to use her as a way to get back and Maddie, and perhaps to wake her the hell up has to be considered.
Honestly, in my opinion, David is the villain in the "Annie" arc.
OK.....I can take it...get your slings and arrows ready!
9. And my usual – what is your favorite quotable quote from this episode?
I like the two most obvious, I guess....
"A gnat with a lobotomy could fool you" and "Stop reasoning with your underwear"...both of which I have used in everyday life......but not to Gray, however!
My favorite explanation in the script is when they talk about Maddie when David asks her to speak to Harlan.....
It says: "Maddie, her suspicionometer in the red......"
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 11:53:09 GMT -5
Ok....my other observations....some silly, maybe.......
Bruce is really very good in this episode.. The observation about his face aging when he sees Gillian is spot on. In fact, there are several shots in this episode in which Bruce looks a heck of a lot like he does today...over 20 years later.
How the heck does he get the Bimmer to meet Gillian in the park? I know Maddie is an understanding lady, but who gives her partner her car to meet his ex-girlfriend?
Was the coffin full of popcorn? Seemed like the pallbearers had a pretty easy job of flinging that sucker around.
The funeral procession chase scene is just genius......I have definitely been towards the end of the line several times when all of a sudden the procession starts moving -- how hysterical to use that! And the rides through the drive in, and the park/baseball field...I love it!
Also, didn't Bruce have a lot of hair towards the BACK of his head in this episode? It looked like some freaky combover!
All in all, I've got to say, I really enjoyed rewatching this episode. I like it a lot better than I did before...... it was fun to analyze!
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Post by diane on Apr 1, 2009 12:03:14 GMT -5
However, when David kisses Gillian at the park, who feels like throwing stuff at the tv??!! ;D Actually, Bees, I have always liked that scene prior to really analyzing it this time. NOW, when I see how badly Gillian was playing him......the fake tears, the carefully orchestrated murder.....NOW I wanna chuck stuff at her! But take heart....'cause I know Lin is gonna tell you later.....there is no real kiss in the script!
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Post by jpen on Apr 1, 2009 12:17:17 GMT -5
But I think the more Maddie sees, the madder she gets.......first because she cannot understand that David can't see he is being played. Then at the police station, she sees how serious it is, and I think she realizes there is a good shot she could lose him. That's when I think she realizes she is jealous....hence her surprising admission before the funeral. Yep, absolutely...and I just love the scene in the hospital, when she literally bares her teeth at him as she says, "...and it's not jealousy, it's LUST!!" Protest much, Maddie-girl?
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Post by jpen on Apr 1, 2009 12:23:08 GMT -5
[quote author=diane board=misc thread=948 post=17553 time=1238604789 How the heck does he get the Bimmer to meet Gillian in the park? I know Maddie is an understanding lady, but who gives her partner her car to meet his ex-girlfriend? [/quote] I thought the same thing!! Shades of the Annie interlude again...I gotta blame this on ABC not coughin' up the dough for another car, or just thinking people wouldn't notice--otherwise, it's a big black mark on Mr. Addison's romantic resume, for sure!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 1, 2009 13:16:41 GMT -5
I have a question: I don't mean to sound hopelessly naive, but are we supposed to believe that Gillian set the whole scenario up, before she even walked into Blue Moon? Or do you think she started scheming once she saw David??Good observation J...I suppose it's feasible Gillian began to work out the plan with David as her pawn once she saw him. Yet, at the same time...it is a bit ironic she came to the location of David's employment. Yeah the name had changed but how many other detective agency's had she bypassed to get to Bluemoon. Conniving broad if you ask me: She went through great length's to become rich, obviously at the expense of David's heart and Harland's life; I wouldn't put it past her character to develop this elaborate scheme. After all, she knew David would try to do the right thing and be her knight in shining armor.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 1, 2009 13:18:13 GMT -5
8. I'm projecting forward into the show’s future for this question: Gillian’s treatment of David was quite awful. Why does she not evoke the fan emotion…dare I say, hatred….that Annie does? Agree with those that have said that it is early in Maddie and David's relationship. We have not been exposed to the future heartache. However, when David kisses Gillian at the park, who feels like throwing stuff at the tv??!! ;D Bees it had no effect on me, lol...I was not threatened one bit...I was just ...numb , lol~
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 1, 2009 13:31:12 GMT -5
This is really one of the better episodes for revealing a little bit more of David's character. He struggles with not recognizing others true feelings or intentions and wears his heart right out there on his sleeve. But, this also reveals a small part of Maddie's heart as she shows genuine concern for David's relationship with Gillian while also being jealous. The moment for me in this episode though is right after the overlapping dialog when David asks Maddie how she's doing. The look he gives her after she says "I hope you don't hate me"It's like he is reminded that they do have something going on between them, just what that is he is not sure. Meanwhile, he thinks someone needs him....and everyone likes to feel needed. Yes, when he say's "How you doin'?", that was cool. They look so awkward and vulnerable...both of them and he feels just as bad as she does. I'll reiterate, they may have attempted to ignore the other but as always, they heard. David simply decided to enjoy a planned furlough, in spite of Maddie's "advice".
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 1, 2009 13:43:49 GMT -5
Him trying to justify his vacation with this Claudine Longet copycat by blaming it on Maddie's lack of appreciation for him is just, well, wrong. Oh gray, you just made me giggle.....do you think anyone on this forum but you and I are old enough to remember Claudine Longet? Maybe you'd better explain. Wasn't she a singer?
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 1, 2009 13:53:07 GMT -5
3. What new things if any do we find out about David from the scene in Gillian’s hotel suite? In addition to learning about David's commitment to a previous serious relationship, I think we get another glimpse into the vulnerability of David. David seems to do everything with his whole heart and soul...and when he falls, he falls hard. Our David shows a little naivete regarding matters of the heart which is both charming and endearing. 4. When does Maddie stop being intrigued by the relationship with Gillian and start being jealous? Does she realize it? I think once Maddie finds out that David went to Gillian's hotel room, she starts to simmer, and when David asks her to meet Harlan, she starts to boil. I am not sure she actually knows why she is so angry ........perhaps she feels that it is not appropriate for David to be asking her to run interference for old girlfriends. But I think the more Maddie sees, the madder she gets.......first because she cannot understand that David can't see he is being played. Then at the police station, she sees how serious it is, and I think she realizes there is a good shot she could lose him. That's when I think she realizes she is jealous....hence her surprising admission before the funeral. So on point! The dots are connected perfectly Diane.
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 1, 2009 14:00:47 GMT -5
8. I'm projecting forward into the show’s future for this question: Gillian’s treatment of David was quite awful. Why does she not evoke the fan emotion…dare I say, hatred….that Annie does? Oh boy.....I am going to be unpopular for this one. I feel that Gillian is by far the more evil villain. She deliberately sought David out to use him for her own ulterior motives, and hurt him in the process. I think the whole issue on why she is not hated more is the timing. Had this not been season 2, but 4 or 5, it would have been a whole different fan reaction. I have never really considered Annie evil.....I guess because her character was almost a "had to be". Yes, she was unfeeling towards Maddie, but I think that the fact that David's full intent to use her as a way to get back and Maddie, and perhaps to wake her the hell up has to be considered. Honestly, in my opinion, David is the villain in the "Annie" arc. OK.....I can take it...get your slings and arrows ready! No rocks or slings from here!! I completely agree! Gillian was just plain conniving and evil. She was using David. I have never felt like Annie was trying to insert herself between David and Maddie. Yes, she used very poor judgment in what she did and it all came at a time where David and Maddie were suppose to be working things out. That is why she is hated so much. But, David is the one that took her hand and ran with it, imo. However, it is kinda like what happened with Gillian. He felt needed and there was the physical attraction and attention he received from both women. But, he felt more for Gillian than he ever felt for Annie. Annie was a weapon.....
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