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Post by lin212 on Mar 11, 2009 7:26:17 GMT -5
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG~that was sosooooo good! Alright people, it's time for us to put in on that DeLorian...we need to go back...in time...and fix this mess!!! Great place to pick up from on a Fan Fic, WOW~Diane, you're the greatest!!! Oh SINCE me and you are just in heaven eh? LOL I still can't believe this was in the other script. Ok Diane fess up you wrote this right? LOL Why didnt the writers keep this stuff in? Do you think they knew then what was going to happen in the first episode of season 5 and figured it would be worse for the fans to gets this much enjoyment with M/D in the end of this episode? hmmmm just wondering. SIGH! Move over rose and since so I can join you in heaven. What a fantastic scene! Thanks so much, diane. I wonder if the writers' strike had any influence on the way this episode was filmed. I'd love to know at what point they knew that this would end up being the season finale.
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Post by diane on Mar 11, 2009 9:00:16 GMT -5
Ok Diane fess up you wrote this right? LOL Why didnt the writers keep this stuff in? Do you think they knew then what was going to happen in the first episode of season 5 and figured it would be worse for the fans to gets this much enjoyment with M/D in the end of this episode? hmmmm just wondering. SIGH! No, Rose, I really didn't write it......the script was by Kerry Ehrin. But I would have bet it was one of the "girls" who wrote this....and it got ix-nayed by the big guy. Here's a quote from an interview we did with her: "In hindsight I don't know that there would have been a better way to handle the pregnancy. I like that Maddie got pregnant. However, I was never thrilled with losing the baby. It was too sad and put such a dark spin on the show. Perhaps I would have let her and David live together and try to function as a normal mother and father while living this totally bizarre other life as detectives. I probably would never have let them get married, however. I think they always needed to have one foot out the door just to be able to breathe." My opinion -- while I love the missing parts of the script, and I love thinking about the possibility of the two of them living together, I think the timing for them would have been just plain bad. Maddie, David, Walter, Terri, Chicago.....all rolled together in a magnificent jumble...with not enough time in between to clear their heads and really think. I love the idea of them considering living together, I love them trading keys (although, we know David already had a key), and I would have loved to spend the summer anticipating season 5. Although, after that build-up, if Womb had still happened, I think half of America would have been suicidal!! I am going to check on some dates and times as relevant to this episode, Womb, and the Writer's strike.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Mar 11, 2009 9:44:21 GMT -5
I'm totally dying a thousand deaths over the living together/key scenes!
It feels like Christmas! Thank you!! ;D
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Post by diane on Mar 11, 2009 9:58:25 GMT -5
OK...here is some of the skinny on timing.
The first draft of the script I got the excerpts from is dated February 28. The revision I have is dated March 6, and the actual show aired on March 22nd. So they stuck with the "living together" concept for at least a week, maybe longer, before switching it to what aired.
However, the Writer's strike started on March 7th...curiouser and curiouser. I wonder how changes got made, and filmed once the strike started?
The Writer's strike was over on August 7th. Womb With a View had a first draft date of September 27, a full month and a half after the strike ended.....I am believing that had something to do with Glenn's other commitments. It went through revisions all the way up to at least November 23, as that is the script version I have. It aired for the first time on December 6.
Many sources count Moonlighting as a major casualty of the writer's strike, although I think WWAV helped sink a few nails into the coffin!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 11:10:23 GMT -5
1: In the beginning of this episode we find out Maddie/Walter have annulled their 2 week marriage . What do you think of Walter's breaking the 3rd wall ( or is it 4th wall LOL) and talking to the audience about them being happy he is leaving while he exits the Blue Moon Office ?
I think it was perfect! Finally, those in charge are listening to the fans. Although, they should have listened to Cybill. She knew there was no way Maddie would have married Walter in the first place.
Poor Dennis Dugan....guess it is a good thing there wasn't email and blogging back then. This site would have exploded!! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 11:32:30 GMT -5
2: Maddie chases David down the hall and asks, “Why don’t you talk to me about all of those things you don’t want to talk about?” Put yourself in David’s shoes and answer Maddie’s question. This is a fanfic crying out to be written...... Yes it does, diane!! I tend to think back as to why he feels so vulnerable....although he would not ever admit it. Look at his past relationships. We know how he and Jillian broke it off---she left without a goodbye. We know what happened with Tess---he was betrayed in more than one way. And we know there has always been something fishy with his relationships with his brother Richie and his father....and probably this has something to do with his mother. And then there is Maddie. 3 years or so of back and forth, ups and downs, but still an obvious deeper love for her than any other woman that has been in his life and she takes off for Chicago without a goodbye...and you know the rest. So, why wouldn't he be a little timid about jumping right back in with this thing he has with Maddie? And this does connect with the "clean slate" question. I agree with those that have said that David did not view his little tryst with Rita as a blemish on his slate. He knew he made a mistake right after he left her bed. It was, however, very bad timing as he missed the phone call from Maddie where she was going to tell him about her pregnancy.I don't think he was lying about his slate being clean. He was talking about what had happened between him and Maddie. He was not the one who ran away from his true feelings, came back married to a stranger, and then made out that life would move on regardless of anyone else's life.
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 11:43:23 GMT -5
7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David? She knows. How could she not? She is smart enough to know she has ran away from what her heart has been telling her all along and in turn hurt the one person who really loves her. I think she is dong the best she can to extend an olive branch to David. She wants to talk things out, only David is now playing the Avoidance game. I thinks she really wants to put her cards on the table and chases him down the hall to try to get him to do the same...."Why won't you talk to me about all of those things you don't want to talk about?" Suddenly she is the one who is not running away from what is between them. I love all of the missing scenes diane shared! Thanks! I guess it is a little comforting to know that they were at least thinking about the relationship going somewhere!! ....what the heck happened??!!
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Post by manitobadesigner on Mar 11, 2009 12:22:03 GMT -5
1: In the beginning of this episode we find out Maddie/Walter have annulled their 2 week marriage . What do you think of Walter's breaking the 3rd wall ( or is it 4th wall LOL) and talking to the audience about them being happy he is leaving while he exits the Blue Moon Office ? I think it was perfect! Finally, those in charge are listening to the fans. Although, they should have listened to Cybill. She knew there was no way Maddie would have married Walter in the first place. Poor Dennis Dugan....guess it is a good thing there wasn't email and blogging back then. This site would have exploded!! ;D I agree, bees, Cybill was bang on with her point to not have Maddie marry a man she'd known for two days. She knew her character inside and out! I loved that 4th wall moment, I screamed at the TV "YES, we are Walter thanks for nothing!"
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 12:44:03 GMT -5
8). Initially, David seems ready to pick up where he and Maddie left off. His attitude smacks of self-satisfaction, he delights in teasing Maddie about his availability. As the episode continues, however, David becomes more distant, cynical, doubtful that the relationship can work. Do you think that his anger in the "clean slate" scene meshes with his playfulness in the opening scene? 4:David tries to remain distant and aloof from Maddie, and while his slate may not be entirely clean, he finally reveals to Maddie what he is thinking in his little speech in her office. Are his feelings more revealing to Maddie or to himself? 3: As we listen in on their thoughts in the car we hear David and Maddie think, “Things are different now, but they’re still the same.” Does this revelation mean the same thing to Maddie and David? I think these 3 q's go together. The early scene in the office just after Walter leaves and David arrives does show David playfully teasing Maddie as to her availabilty in the singles world. I like how he picks up that Maddie is anxious to pick up where they left off and he plays hard to get. At this point, I don't really think he knows exactly how he feels. I mean, he knows he still loves her and they did say some things to each other after the wedding fiasco....especially Maddie. I think David is trying to let it all soak in! After having some time to think.....which is another sign of character growth for David, btw!!LOL!!........he realizes that they have been through so much and while his feelings are still the same for her, things are different between them and will forever will be. I believe he does not really understand what he is feeling until MAddie says, "...start with a clean slate..." It hits him right then and there....hey, I am not the one that caused all of this mess. Why are you talking about a clean slate? He unloads what he is thinking, but NOT what he is afraid to talk about. I swear, those two. I just want to yell and say TALK already, would 'ja!!!!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 12:58:56 GMT -5
6. The title: Well, as you're probably all aware, the title puns on the following verse from the Bible: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14 This verse refers to the coming of Jesus Christ. God makes a promise to his people that a savior will be born, and thus the Word (promise/prophecy) is made flesh. The ML writers turn this around...John Wicklow takes a flesh-and-blood woman (Mary...hmmm) and turns her into words in his journal. And she interprets his words as a promise to love and care for her--he becomes her "savior" when he takes the rap for killing her husband. Very clever. But, as usual, I think there's more going on here, having to do with promises that have been made, unmade, and not made. Conventionally, two people meet, fall in love, promise to "have and hold" each other, and then have children, whom they promise to care for. Well, David and Maddie met, fell in love....and then all H-E-double-toothpicks breaks out, and the promises they should have made to each other are instead, made to other people (David never makes a specific promise to Terri, but the potential is there). Now they are at a crossroads--all the tangled skeins have been unwound, and they have a second chance. Whether or not they're both still willing is in question. However, I think the last scene leads us to believe that there is the promise of a future for them (and I hope I'm not getting blasphemous here)...a promise represented by the (writers') Word made flesh, in the person of little Baby Hayes.Which is why I find AWWAV so upsetting...but that's a conversation for another time. I read this late last night and had to come back to it today. Definitely at a crossroads, jpen, and with the little snippets from diane regarding mods to the script it seems as if some wanted David and Maddie to eventually be together. I don't think marriage was the thing for them at this point, but at least they were CONSIDERING getting them back together. I would like to know WHY the writers of S5 wrote like they did not have a clue a clue a clue as to WHO Maddie and David were and what Moonlighting was really all about? OMG.....I think I need to go make some Whoopie pies..............
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 13:10:14 GMT -5
9: Do you feel Maddie jumps too quickly into thinking David is ready to jump right back into their relationship now that she annulled her marriage to Walter? Do you feel David's backing down is to hurt Maddie or is he still so hurt that he feels he can't trust Maddie and the thought of a having relationship with her? Do we feel he is right to act the way he does towards her? Yes! Absolutely - I'm very put off by her "Mmkay, let go and hang out at some laundromats tonight!" attitude. Perhaps she felt that it was the only way to win David back, by being so available and willing. When they got together she was fighting it every step of the way, and David was hurt by her non-committal attitude. Maybe she thought, 'Hey, I want to let him know that if he wants me, he's got me." But her attitude whether completely oblivious to David's feelings, which I don't think she totally was, or if it was indeed a strategy to get back on his good side, her timing was terrible. She should have apologized wholeheartedly and talked with him before ever attempting to revisit the idea of a committed relationship, which they'd never truly had anyway! David is completely entitled to blast anger and feel hurt because of her actions. Exactly manitoba!! As smart as Maddie is...and she does have social graces, doesn't she?....I mean, I see her trying to say she is sorry again. She did say she did not do any of the things she did to hurt David in MHGM, but, she knows David is hurt and Avoiding the real issues of their relationship. She really needs to lay it on the line with another heartfelt apology. That would have been a great way for Cybill to shine in that moment and for Maddie to gain back the favor of the fans during that time. Icy....yes....cold-hearted....NO!!! Sounds like another fanfic......hmmmm!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 13:15:12 GMT -5
4:David tries to remain distant and aloof from Maddie, and while his slate may not be entirely clean, he finally reveals to Maddie what he is thinking in his little speech in her office. Are his feelings more revealing to Maddie or to himself? 7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David? I think that these two questions are related. When Maddie confronts David, I don't think she has any idea what feelings her questions will unleash. David becomes defensive when Maddie questions his commitment to her, as he should. Actually, it is a testament to David's love that he even considers trying to make a go of it. I think David's speech opened Maddie's eyes to the depth of his pain as well as the depth of his love. The look on Maddie's face is telling. I think she realized how much she had underestimated him. Yep, lin. And I will take this a step further in saying I don't think even David realized what emotions could be unleashed either!
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Post by jpen on Mar 11, 2009 13:19:25 GMT -5
My opinion -- while I love the missing parts of the script, and I love thinking about the possibility of the two of them living together, I think the timing for them would have been just plain bad. Maddie, David, Walter, Terri, Chicago.....all rolled together in a magnificent jumble...with not enough time in between to clear their heads and really think. I love the idea of them considering living together, I love them trading keys (although, we know David already had a key), and I would have loved to spend the summer anticipating season 5. Diane, thank you so much for taking the time to post these alternate scenes...and like the new signature, BTW! Great googly moogly, I wish I had been a fly on the wall at the script meeting...though I can tell you I would've dive-bombed the coffee cup of the writer who stood up and said, "David and Maddie make a commitment? Naaahhhh... that's not what the public wants to see!" Seriously, though, one part of my brain (the rational, English-teacher side) agrees that the living together angle would've been too much, too soon; that David would still be too angry; that there would still have been too many unresolved issues. But the other side of my brain...the other side...the impetuous romantic in me can't help but wanna punch the air and say, "YESSSSS!! For the love of Pete, we've been waiting for this since THH!" (Uh-oh...now it's whispering insidiously: "And what do you think happens next? They gotta come out of those offices sometime..." Since, throw that DeLorian into reverse, baby--I'm comin' with you!! ;D)
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 13:19:51 GMT -5
7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David?Boy, ya know at this point I don’t think so. Her cavalier attitude after dumping Walter and what I saw as an attempt to “pick up” David was rather unsettling. Even the look on her face after David “let her have it” was somewhat less than what I expected. I mean he blasted her with what we were ALL thinking, and we were left with a rather blank stare. One of the few instances of bad editing in the series. I think she showed more emotion in the hospital after the botched wedding. Yeah, gray. Maybe they went with the wrong "take"? Editing, maybe. Something was missing. Maybe more tears and Maddie at least saying she was sorry again?!
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Post by beesnbears on Mar 11, 2009 13:23:21 GMT -5
Off topic but... OKay ... I was a bit reluctant to post this, but I did a Fan Fic as I promised. Be gentle, I know everyone here is a foremost expert on this and I'm a virgin...so here is the link. www.fanfiction.net/s/4912514/1/Whose_Your_DaddyVery nice, since!!!
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