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Post by lin212 on Feb 3, 2009 21:32:44 GMT -5
1. What, if any, is the importance of showing an empty Blue Moon office and Agnes entering before everyone else on the first day back from vacation? It seems to me like a metaphor for the return of the show to the airwaves after the summer hiatus. On the one hand, I can see the empty Blue Moon office as the stand-in for the viewers’ empty living rooms (or at least dormant tv sets). The office is quiet and vacant and just waiting for the Blue Moon people to come in and give it life again, just as we viewers waited all summer for them to come back into our lives. On the other hand, I can see Agnes coming in and readying the place up, so eager for the fun to start as a stand-in for all the folks who worked on the Moonlighting production. It’s like Agnes’s excitement is just a representation of how excited all the folks behind Moonlighting were to get back to work and bring us a great show. 2. What do you think of Maddie’s little smile when she awakens? Contrast this look with the look she has when she enters the office after the wobblies. When I see her little smile, I immediately think of the contrast between it and the one at the beginning of Gunfight at the So-So Corral. In that earlier episode, she’s just beaming, so eager to start work at her new enterprise. She’s kind of over-the-top in her excitement and earnestness and naivety concerning her hopes and expectations about what this new life will bring her. In this episode, though, her smile is much more subtle and is less about what she hopes is waiting for her at the office, and more about what she knows is waiting there for her. She’s not so naïve anymore. She knows all about the good and the bad of running Blue Moon and dealing with the employees and working with David in particular. After two years, she accepts and embraces it all , and is happy to be getting back to it. Of course, by now David has become an integral part of her life and I think a huge part of her smile is knowing she’ll soon see David. Again, though, her smile is small and kind of crooked because, as eager as she is to see him, she knows the headaches and challenges he’ll bring. Of course, that’s part of why she’s so eager for him to be back in her daily life. Two great points, callmeditzy. Ooooh, I love this place!
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Post by lin212 on Feb 3, 2009 21:34:46 GMT -5
She must know that if she wanted to join that club all she had to do was, well, show up naked...and bring beer. Heck I'd get by with a whoopie pie! Whadda guy, graycav. LOL
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 21:42:34 GMT -5
Hey IBM: Interesting to see that we have our first big disagreement. I'm talking to your opinion of how Maddie treated David throughout the episode (kinda crapped all over him) and my version where she was the adult because Dave's head wasn't in the game. Great to see how opposing viewpoints can come out in this board.....even though you are so SO wrong and I am absolutely correct. Thank you, Tony! I know I'm SO wrong, but hey! We do our best to cope with things in our life! Sometimes we do that great, sometimes act like jerks. It's just that, when things get REALLY tough, it's hard to behave rationally. Sooooo....You GET HAMMERED!!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 21:54:36 GMT -5
And this concludes the end of another broadcast day. Gotta rise early tomorrow to make the world safe for democracy, freedom of expression and internet porn. I look forward to reading further posts when I arise from my slumber. As always, I am enamored of the discussions we have had tonite. Be well, all. I'm off to dreaming of Maddie showing up at my door with a whoopie pie!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 21:56:32 GMT -5
4. What do you make of David flat out lying to Maddie about spending the evening with his father? And why do you think Maddie let him continue in his little charade for so long before calling his hand?
Avoidance.
Like I said on the "Brother..." thread, you avoid the ones who inflicted you pain/act judgmental toward you.
David just tries to live his life like everyone else! And when his dad shows up in his office, well...It's not easy to enter that office!
Look at how he adjusts his tie just before stepping in. Inferiority complex. Can you see it?
And why does Maddie let him continue his charade?
To see how far he would go. She thinks he's acting immature! She thinks he is joking! Well, maybe he is acting immature. But Maddie does not have issues with her father. So, can she understand him? IMO, no!
Does anybody share my viewpoint? *deafening silence* LOL! ;D
Boy, what a heavy episode! ;D
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 21:57:50 GMT -5
She must know that if she wanted to join that club all she had to do was, well, show up naked...and bring beer. Heck I'd get by with a whoopie pie! Whadda guy, graycav. LOL My Badness, Tony!
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 22:01:43 GMT -5
One thing you mention that was brought out earlier was your opinion that Maddie was jealous, I suppose of Stephanie. It appears that a number of you ladies feel that Maddie had that vibe. I didn't get it. Disdain maybe, disgust probably, but I don't see the ice queen being jealous of one of David's one night stands, as memorable as that may have been to him. She must know that if she wanted to join that club all she had to do was, well, show up naked...and bring beer. Heck I'd get by with a whoopie pie! Oh, Tony...you and that whoopie pie (do you think the original inventors knew that it would bring a chuckle every time someone mentioned it???)... Anyway, I gotta defend "us ladies"--I do think jealousy plays a very significant role in Maddie's reaction. If Stephanie had been a "run of the mill" one-night stand, I think Maddie would have been merely disdainful and disgusted, as you say. But David makes it very clear that this encounter was a watershed moment for him, and Maddie doesn't want to have to compete with that memory (who would???)--not that she is consciously thinking about competing with it, yet... And, IMO, she can be an ice queen on the inside, but that little look she gives David in her office when she says "What about you? Did you have fun?" tells me her heart is melting on the inside...just a little.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 22:02:22 GMT -5
And this concludes the end of another broadcast day. Gotta rise early tomorrow to make the world safe for democracy, freedom of expression and internet porn. I look forward to reading further posts when I arise from my slumber. As always, I am enamored of the discussions we have had tonite. Be well, all. I'm off to dreaming of Maddie showing up at my door with a whoopie pie! Night, Tony! Sweet Dreams!!! And I trust you'll...Treat her like a Lady!!
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 22:05:03 GMT -5
Generally, that's true. But they did have a minor falling-out during "Every Daughter's Father is a Virgin". I guess the problem here--the reason why Maddie and David can't quite connect when it comes to the topic of David Sr.--is that Maddie only knows what it's like to have your father fail you; David knows what it's like to fail your father. I agree that Maddie views a lot of David's behavior as immature, but I'm willing to give her a bit more credit for supporting David, at least in the beginning. She really only turned on him once he played the good old Avoidance Game (a bit hypocritical of her, no? ) at the party (which she felt bad about the next day) and in the garage. And, in that case, I understand why she was disappointed with David. I don't think she had a right to be so judgmental, but, like I've been saying, that's one of the defining traits of her character--it's pretty much hard-wired in her brain. I think she's definitely disturbed by David's story (I'm thinking specifically of her reaction right before David claims to know "every pore on (Stephanie's) body"), and that's what initially sets her off. Then disappointment and that old judgmental instinct kick in when David begins to flat-out refuse to go to the wedding. I think it's fair to say that Maddie was motivated both by jealousy (which I feel was subconscious), and just general Maddie-like revulsion with David's "usual" childish antics. Hmmm...I think we've found a middle ground, IBM--you definitely make some interesting points. Agree to disagree? Edit: G'night, graycav--thanks for the laughs, and the discussion.
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 22:10:13 GMT -5
And why does Maddie let him continue his charade?
To see how far he would go. She thinks he's acting immature! She thinks he is joking! Well, maybe he is acting immature. But Maddie does not have issues with her father. So, can she understand him? IMO, no!
Well, IBM, it's rare that we disagree, but I think I'd argue that Maddie does have issues with her father ("Every Father's Daughter"). However, it's pretty clear that David seems to feel that his father didn't love him or wasn't interested in him while he was growing up, while I don't think Maddie ever felt that from her parents (if anything, I would guess that she would've felt they were overprotective and overinvolved, at some point. In that sense, I think she'd find it difficult to understand why he would be reluctant to open that office door. And, I have to say, I don't think she thinks he's joking--there's too much raw feeling there when she catches him. I just think she's wondering why he feels he needs to lie to her--the whole situation puzzles and intrigues her. Just IMO, of course!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 22:33:45 GMT -5
And why does Maddie let him continue his charade?
To see how far he would go. She thinks he's acting immature! She thinks he is joking! Well, maybe he is acting immature. But Maddie does not have issues with her father. So, can she understand him? IMO, no!
Well, IBM, it's rare that we disagree, but I think I'd argue that Maddie does have issues with her father ("Every Father's Daughter"). However, it's pretty clear that David seems to feel that his father didn't love him or wasn't interested in him while he was growing up, while I don't think Maddie ever felt that from her parents (if anything, I would guess that she would've felt they were overprotective and overinvolved, at some point. In that sense, I think she'd find it difficult to understand why he would be reluctant to open that office door. And, I have to say, I don't think she thinks he's joking--there's too much raw feeling there when she catches him. I just think she's wondering why he feels he needs to lie to her--the whole situation puzzles and intrigues her. Just IMO, of course! Oops! I did not make myself clear here. Yes, Maddie DOES have issues with his father, BUT they're different kinds of issues! Like gorky said (and I'm quoting her): Maddie only knows what it's like to have your father fail you; David knows what it's like to fail your father.And, Oops #2! I made a rush statement, saying that Maddie thought David was joking. What I really wanted to say is that, at this point in the episode, which is the very beginning of it, she doesn't SUSPECT he has issues with his father. She doesn't understand why he tried to avoid his father the previous night. And yes, his behavior intrigues her!
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 22:52:04 GMT -5
Oops! I did not make myself clear here. Yes, Maddie DOES have issues with his father, BUT they're different kinds of issues! Like gorky said (and I'm quoting her): Maddie only knows what it's like to have your father fail you; David knows what it's like to fail your father.And, Oops #2! I made a rush statement, saying that Maddie thought David was joking. What I really wanted to say is that, at this point in the episode, which is the very beginning of it, she doesn't SUSPECT he has issues with his father. She doesn't understand why he tried to avoid his father the previous night. And yes, his behavior intrigues her! Yes, absolutely agree IBM...though maybe she suspects a little, given the fact that he hasn't seen his father in two or three years. And that gorky quote...she sure can coin a phrase, can't she?
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 3, 2009 22:53:31 GMT -5
Wowee!! I am so impressed. It will take me all week to get through this, but so far you guys get A+++ ;D
Okay, here is my little gift to you. It's gonna make you rethink a few things.....
I happen to own the script to this episode and thought some of you would like to read some of the small little scenes they left out.
After we hear the message machine with Agnes and the landlord. CUT TO:
CLOSE ON FACE
….Bathed in red light….two dampened cotton balls cover the eyes….David…..sunburned from the ultra-violet rays….and he rubs his eyes…..looking as if he just awakened…..
CUT TO:
David standing in front of a mirror in the cramped booth…..tying his tie….giving his hair one last pat….and he stops…..peering into the mirror…..checking his tan….satisfied….but we can’t help but notice the look of melancholy on his face.
CUT TO AGNES ENTERING OFFICE
____________________________________________________________________
After Addison Sr. asks David if he would like to go for a walk.
CUT TO exterior of Century City --- DAY
….as the two men……hands jammed in their pockets…..looking down more than up as they make their way through the concrete canyons surrounded by skyscraping office building….
DAD: (after a moment) I embarrass you….don’t I?
…and David says nothing….just smiles an embarrassed smile to himself and shakes his head…..
DAD: (no trouble at all) It’s okay. What? I talk too much? I say the wrong things? What?
DAVID: (without much feeling) You’re fine Dad…
DAD: No….I can see it. I embarrass you. Have for a while. I understand. My old man embarrassed me. You didn’t know him….but he would’ve embarrassed you too….
DAVID: You don’t embarrass me…
DAD: Yeah I do. But it’s okay. My hearts not breaking. I’m okay. I know you love me. I know you’d kill for me. You just don’t want to be around me.
DAVID: I like being around you. (and then) What are you doing here, Dad?
DAD: (con’t) I’m telling you…. it’s okay. Just…
He grabs his son by the back of the neck….
DAD: I’m just telling you something. Me…..I never was smart enough to tell my old man that even though I didn’t want to be near him….I thought he was okay. I never said that. And then he died. And I’m not sure he knew.
….and the two men look at each other for the longest time….the older man finally releasing the younger man’s neck…turns….and continues walking.
ON DAVID ….and he just stands there for a long couple of moment’s….watching his father walk away….
DAVID: (finally calling out to him) Is that why you’re here? Are you….dying?
CUT TO DAVID…..coming into Maddie’s office slamming door.
___________________________________________________________________
ACT TWO
The conversation in the car on the way to the reception was originally a tad different.
MADDIE: I wonder what she is going to be like. Don’t you wonder what she is going to be like?
DAVID: Who?
MADDIE: This woman. This woman your fathers engaged to. This woman to whose parent’s house we’re going…
DAVID: Oh….her. Well….knowing my father….she’ll be the kind of woman who’s been around the pool a couple of times……the kind who thinks man’s greatest invention is the double shot glass….or the colored bowling ball. (and then quietly) But that’s okay. The old guy’s happy.
MADDIE: (noticing his demeanor) The young guy seems pretty happy too.
David: Yeah….y’know…when he told me…he grabbed me and hugged me….thought he was going to break a rib. I’ll tell you….I feel like the father of the groom.
MADDIE: I think it’s nice.
DAVID: Yeah. It is…(and then, this is hard) See……since Mom left him….it’s been tough….He’s a very needy guy…y’know? Or…maybe he isn’t. I don’t know. It’s just me….my brother Richie…..we don’t always have it to give….the time….the attention. (he shrugs) That sounds bad. But this…..this is good.
________________________________________________________________
The scene where they are dancing and talking about what David said to Stephanie is pretty much the same except:
DAVID: ……..won’t wear any deodorant….maybe get some false teeth……I don’t know if any of that will do any good….but hey… we’re both committed to trying….
Stephanie and her father dance over to them and she leans over and kisses David
Stephanie: I’m so proud to be a member of your family
And they dance off.
David watches her go and Maddie watches David
MADDIE: She seems to be bearing up well under the strain (and then, noting the lipstick on his mouth) Oedipus….you’ve got lipstick all over your false teeth.
And David smiles.
CUT TO: Int Church Bathroom
…. And we can hear the music from the reception leaking through the walls as David makes his way through the doors……Moves to the sink and begins washing the lipstick off his mouth…. And suddenly we hear the sound of the toilet flushing….and a door opens and there….
IN THE MIRROR
…..stands David’s father….tie slightly askew…eyes full of wine….and he just stands there….rock steady…..and David looks at his fathers reflection…standing there dead still.
DAVID: (a small smile) I didn’t crawl.
….and the older man lumbers over to his son……brings his hand up to the back of the boy’s neck and begins to knead it……
DAD: (after a moment) You’re so tight…..you’re all tense. Whatsa matter? You’re acting like I’m gonna hit you. I’m not gonna hit ya. I thought about it. But I’m not gonna do it. I mean…hell…you’re my son….you wouldn’t have done those things if you didn’t have a damn good reason. Right?
…and there is a long silence….Dad rubbing David’s neck…..David saying nothing…..
DAD: I’m waiting
DAVID: (after a long moment; the truth) Maybe you better hit me
DAD: What?
DAVID: (a shrug) I can’t explain it. I really can’t. I wish I could.
…..another long silence……
DAD: (taking his hand from his son’s neck) Listen….(backing away a step)….I’m gonna give you this one….I don’t understand any of it…..but you must’ve thought it was something you had to do. Right? So I’m gonna give you this one……I look at it this way…..I embarrass you…..now you embarrass me. We’ll call it even. Clean slate. Maybe start fresh with each other. ON DAVID ….and he takes it all in for a moment….then smiles a small smile
DAVID: (a whisper damn audible) Dad……(a long pause; a deep breath) I think you’re okay. ON DAVID SENIOR …as he looks at his son….and it’s hard to tell if it’s the wine or the words….but his eyes are moist…..David reaches over and hugs his father……and his father hugs back….and they hold each other for a moment…..finally breaking away the two of them stand facing one another and each of them smiles….then as if on cue they walk together out of the john.
How bout them apples!!!
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Post by rose35 on Feb 3, 2009 22:58:03 GMT -5
hey all, i'm here finally, was busy with my boys, we had a concert singing to Keith Urban, it was fun, but anyway i'm here to start answering these great very thought provoking questions!!!!!!!! First i want to say this questions here is perfectly answered by our darling IBM! IBM sweetie love what you said here! Just PERFECT! Maddie has 3 loves: Work, work and David LOL Thus the smile! 2. What do you think of Maddie’s little smile when she awakens? Contrast this look with the look she has when she enters the office after the wobblies.She's happy to get back to work because her life without Blue Moon is empty and shallow (gee, take a look at "Atlas Belched"!). Maddie loves her job (see "Witness For The Execution": who the hell loves Mondays??? ). But being a detective is not the only thing she loves....Gee whiz, she also loves David!!! And can't wait to see him again.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 22:58:05 GMT -5
You know, as funny as the intro is, it does kind of a disservice to the episode, because it contradicts information that's implied by David Jr.: David Sr.'s been lonely for a while, meaning his wife has been gone for a while. Or at least that's how I see it. Were we ever given any information about David's mother outside of what we learn in this teaser? Exactly! What about David's mom? Is she long gone or not??? Excellent observation, gorky! I've been wondering the same thing for months!! ...Still am, BTW... My feeling is that there's a missing piece of the puzzle, a big part of the Addison family which has never been fully explained. Too bad!
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