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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 23:00:46 GMT -5
Wow, bees....amazing! And kinda funny, too, when they had enough time for the "filler" at the beginning of the ep, that they would have cut some of these scenes out?!? The hug between David and his dad would've been lovely to see, especially since there's no interaction between them after David Sr. comes into the church hall where David and Stephanie are talking--the missing scene would've provided some closure. I've gotta go back and read it again, and then post a few more comments...
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Post by rose35 on Feb 3, 2009 23:05:01 GMT -5
Ahhh Lin, Just wanted to say so perfectly & beautifully said!! And I so agree with your SIGH! LOL You guys are just rocking with these posts tonight! All so much fun and amazing to read! gorky, great point about David and Maddie as a couple in this episode. They are so comfortable together heading to the engagement party and dancing at the wedding. I just love love that dance scene ("So, Ginger, tell Fred what's wrong.") Sigh... Also, love the way they relate to each other at the beginning of the episosde- teasing each other, smiling, having a real conversation about David's Dad - it was so great to see them that way. Maddie seemed to enjoy David's antics, as if she finally truly appreciated his fun-loving ways.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 23:06:22 GMT -5
Oops! I did not make myself clear here. Yes, Maddie DOES have issues with his father, BUT they're different kinds of issues! Like gorky said (and I'm quoting her): Maddie only knows what it's like to have your father fail you; David knows what it's like to fail your father.And, Oops #2! I made a rush statement, saying that Maddie thought David was joking. What I really wanted to say is that, at this point in the episode, which is the very beginning of it, she doesn't SUSPECT he has issues with his father. She doesn't understand why he tried to avoid his father the previous night. And yes, his behavior intrigues her! Yes, absolutely agree IBM...though maybe she suspects a little, given the fact that he hasn't seen his father in two or three years. And that gorky quote...she sure can coin a phrase, can't she? Yes, maybe Maddie already suspects a little. You're absolutely right. SHE SURE CAN!! That's exactly what I was clumsily trying to say! Thanks, gorky!!! OK, jpen, shall we make up? ;D SHAKE!
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Post by beesnbears on Feb 3, 2009 23:14:25 GMT -5
All in all, you make a good argument, IBM--it's great that you're so in-tune with David. I just had to say a few words on dear old Maddie's behalf, though. gorky THANK YOU SO MUCH GORKY!!!
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Post by rose35 on Feb 3, 2009 23:14:56 GMT -5
Reading this just now made me think of High School Musical LOL because our dear Graycav said "Daves head wasnt in the game" and thats like the big line in the movie:"Get Your Head In The Game". Sorry i was having a teen movie moment LOL But also I do want to agree with Graycav fully on this point here made in regard to IBM's point, Hey IBM I still love ya! LOL David was acting like a baby, like it was all about him and Maddie i think had to be the reasonable one and knock him down a few more to make him see ,like hey buster get it together and do this for your dad and forget about the past, the past doesnt matter , and of course he did listen to her eventually and got his head in the game and showed up at her house the next morining looking FINE i must add Hey IBM: Interesting to see that we have our first big disagreement. I'm talking to your opinion of how Maddie treated David throughout the episode (kinda crapped all over him) and my version where she was the adult because Dave's head wasn't in the game. Great to see how opposing viewpoints can come out in this board.....even though you are so SO wrong and I am absolutely correct.
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gorky
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Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 23:15:07 GMT -5
Thanks so much, bees! This sure does give us a lot to mull over. Just a few things that popped out at me: For starters, I wish they'd kept the line about the divorce in the final episode, so that obsessive freaks like me wouldn't have had to consider the contradictions between the intro and the rest of the show . On a less, y'know, dumb note: it seems like, between this draft and the final episode, the dynamic between father and sons was switched. In the finished episode, it seems like David Jr. feels neglected by his father (his line about his dad never showing an interest in him), not the other way around. But, by that same token, it seems like the David Sr. that was preserved in the final episode still retains a lot of the characteristics one would associate with a neglected father, wishing his sons showed more of an interest in him--I think he's almost meek in his introductory scene at Blue Moon. In the final episode, I don't get the feeling that Dave's embarrassed by his dad. It's more like he resents the guy, for choosing to reconnect after so many years. I think he's annoyed by his father's presence; David would much rather forget about his father than confront how he feels about him. I would've loved if they'd kept that line. So funny. ;D As for that final scene between the two Davids: I don't think it would've fit well in the finished episode. It seems to me that, in subsequent drafts, the episode became less an overt study of David's relationship with his father, and more a study of David's character--his loyalties, his regrets, his early life. We learn a lot about him as a result of his father's presence, but I don't think that's the focal point of the episode. I actually think the emotional core of the episode lies completely with David, and how he copes with an, er, awkward situation. And, jpen: Eh, I'm still 363 quotes shy of that calendar, though.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 23:21:50 GMT -5
Hee, no problem, bees. I got the feeling over in the "Sam & Dave" thread that you're a big ol' Maddie fangirl, like myself. The poor woman does get a bad rap, doesn't she? I mean--and not to digress too much here--I don't think she's a saint by any means, and I disagree with a lot of the choices she made in seasons four and five. But she's not the she-demon a lot of people (not on these boards, but in the general ML community) see her as.
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Post by rose35 on Feb 3, 2009 23:24:11 GMT -5
Evening all! Great questions, Bees!!8. What are your thoughts as to the meaning of the title of this episode? I interpreted it to mean that David does indeed rise to the occasion to stand by his father regardless of his own misgivings. Hey manitobadesigner i like this meaning here, i also want to add that it could maybe further mean like when they ask you in church to please rise and David does decide to go to church and Rise up for this holy occasion for his father.
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 23:24:40 GMT -5
And, jpen: Eh, I'm still 363 quotes shy of that calendar, though. Hey, gorky, plenty of time, plenty of time!
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Post by rose35 on Feb 3, 2009 23:28:36 GMT -5
Another small digression - the bathroom scene. Somehow I find Maddie screaming at the top of her lungs and banging on the bathroom door far more embarrassing than David crawling around on the floor. At least he was fairly quiet. Maddie, in fact, made quite a scene. Ok LIN, you got me ROFLMAO! Ya know you are so right, if some people at the party didnt know what was going on, well they sure did now that Maddie got so involved! LOL
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 23:31:38 GMT -5
Hee, no problem, bees. I got the feeling over in the "Sam & Dave" thread that you're a big ol' Maddie fangirl, like myself. The poor woman does get a bad rap, doesn't she? I mean--and not to digress too much here--I don't think she's a saint by any means, and I disagree with a lot of the choices she made in seasons four and five. But she's not the she-demon a lot of people (not on these boards, but in the general ML community) see her as. I'm right there with you both in the Maddie Fan Club! And I do think, as several people pointed out, that her outburst in the garage was warranted (even if that outburst was motivated partially by jealousy) particularly when she urges David to put his private feelings--and memories--aside for his father. So much of the time we talk about all that Maddie needs to learn from David: how to open up, live life more fully, be spontaneous, etc. Sometimes I think Maddie doesn't get enough credit for teaching David a few things...responsibility, maturity, and even rationality aren't all bad!
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 23:35:04 GMT -5
Hey, gringo and gringettes...time for me to take a siesta! Thanks for all the fun! ;D
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 23:37:49 GMT -5
David was acting like a baby, like it was all about him and Maddie i think had to be the reasonable one and knock him down a few more to make him see ,like hey buster get it together and do this for your dad and forget about the past, the past doesnt matter , and of course he did listen to her eventually and got his head in the game and showed up at her house the next morining looking FINE i must add Excuse me. Just a simple, innocent question: how would you react if you were in David's shoes? Would you still be lucid, calm, objective? I'm sorry, maybe it's because I'm the youngest here tonight, or maybe... I don't know what it is, I just know I'd react the very same way!! And another thing: In THIS situation, the past doesn't matter!? Really? Conclusion: it seems I didn't get the message of this episode at all!! I humbly apologize. I mean it.
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 23:38:11 GMT -5
G'night, jpen! I see your thanks, and raise you a muchas gracias* for that awesome analysis of Maddie-as-mother a few pages back. Great discussions tonight. *If that's wrong, I apologize. I took French...
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 23:40:46 GMT -5
Hey, gringo and gringettes...time for me to take a siesta! Thanks for all the fun! ;D Night!
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