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Post by jpen on Jan 27, 2009 19:44:08 GMT -5
Welcome to the Dave and Richie Show!! IMO, this is one of the best episodes of Season 2...on the surface, we have suspense and slapstick, but peel back the layers and you get sophisticated and complex character development. So let's dive right in! 1. What do we learn about Growing Up Addison in this episode? What, if any, bearing does this have on David's "live fast--die young--leave clean underwear" motto and seemingly incessant optimism? 2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? Do you find their chemistry plausible? How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's? 3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? 4. When do you think Maddie's feelings toward Richie change? Have her feelings for David changed at all by the final scene? And, from the Speculations & Revelations department: 5. What happens between Maddie and Richie after David leaves the bar? 6. What do you think is Maddie's "terrible confession"? Let's start with these...and feel free to add any of your own!
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graycav56
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I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:03:37 GMT -5
1. Let me say that I LOVE this episode. We get to learn more about David through his friends and family so much more than we ever did with Maddie. Anyhow, I see the relationship between Dave and Rich VERY normal. Sibling rivalry at its best between two brothers of relatively similar age.
We learn that David was always the popular one, the carefree, happy go lucky one. Since David (and Richie as well) placed quite a premium on those values, it is easy to see them carried into adulthood.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:08:33 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? I think she sees some of the qualities of David in him, but, at least early on, without some of the rough edges. Recall at this point I still believe Maddie places a higher value on monetary success than she does later on. Additionally, I feel she was still trying to run the place as a business, and the office romance (with all the things that brings) has not yet blossomed.
Do you find their chemistry plausible? Um, not really. Perhaps I’m always rooting for Dave, so I just don’t see how she’d swap them. As much as I liked Charles Rocket, he is a distant second.
How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's? Well, we (the viewers and Dave) KNOW the truth about Richie’s shenanigans, and Maddie does not. She sees him initially as a refined version of David, something she is striving to construct.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 20:11:23 GMT -5
WOW! What thought-provoking questions, jpen! Golly, you got me stumped! GREAT JOB!!! All right, let's kick off with #1: 1. What do we learn about Growing Up Addison in this episode? What, if any, bearing does this have on David's "live fast--die young--leave clean underwear" motto and seemingly incessant optimism?Dave is the "Beaver" Cleaver of the Addison family. This means his attitude toward life and obligations has been more constant than a Fundamental Physical Constant: he was the coolest guy in the whole neighborhood, every guy used to emulate his acting, every girl wanted to take him home (...home? Nah, a deserted beach works better... ;D) Dave always had jazz. Richie didn't, and that's why he's envious of him. So my guess is, David's philosophy always has been a James Dean kind of! P.S. Tony, your avatar ROCKS!!
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Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 27, 2009 20:13:58 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? Do you find their chemistry plausible? How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's?
Hey all!
OK I'm gonna try #2 first. Maddie as an independent woman and one who always enjoyed life's finer things. I think she is automatically drawn to wealth and success from habit, and she sees Ritchie as a successful, rich and attractive man (obviously this is not who he is). So by rote, she is drawn to him, leaving David in the dust. After all, she sees David as a hapless, lazy womanizer (who is not wealthy or successful).
I saw more chemistry with Maddie and Preston Holt, so in other words, there was zero chemistry between Maddie and Ritchie.
The audience already knows he's a screw up, so since we're in on the secret with Dave, we're even more apt to feel badly for poor David stuck in the corner of the bar, watching Maddie and Ritchie dance together.
The wonderful thing about this episode though, is that I think Maddie is more grateful and accepting of David at the show's close - Dave's a real guy, and she's learning to depend on him
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:17:57 GMT -5
3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie?
This is a complicated one. It is obvious Dave has more than a fleeting interest in Maddie at this point, and I’m not just talking about getting her horizontal. I suppose David thought this was a win win situation for him. Since he knew Richie would eventually blow it, he could let him flirt with Maddie feeling pretty confident it would not go anywhere, and by allowing same, he keeps the visibility of his burning embers for Maddie hidden from her view. Richie thinks they have a business only relationship and Maddie remains confused as to David’s true intentions. Advantage: Addison.
And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? If we are talking about his fight with Agnes, I think under the surface Dave is bugged that he had to go to his brother to help save Maddie’s house, and that was the LAST person he ever wanted to have to beg for a hand. Such as it was, he wanted to go to any lengths, even being mean to Ms. Dipesto, to keep that a secret.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:20:40 GMT -5
Trivia: This is the first episode since the pilot where Glenn Caron has screenwriter billing (according to the DVD insert...but we all know how accurate THEY are!)
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:29:29 GMT -5
Thanks IBM! Just a quickie there as usual.
4. When do you think Maddie's feelings toward Richie change? Oh, I think before they were playing Trivial Pursuit, but definitely by the time of the fight at the house. When he comes clean about the money being “found” and not earned. However, she doesn’t seem too upset. I think she too, HAD to know that the Addison DNA sooner or later would come out.
Have her feelings for David changed at all by the final scene? Ya know, by the last scene I think she looked at David with a bit more respect. I bet she understood the pride Dave had to swallow to get that money from Richie, and she appreciated it. Maybe he was going to be somebody who would protect her after all….
HELLO...IS THIS THING ON??? Three posts in a row. It's lonely here in snowy York.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 20:47:17 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? Do you find their chemistry plausible? How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's?This is another great question, jpen!! Why is she attracted to Richie? Because he's got great table manners! ;D OK, half seriously, I think Richie made a good impression on her at Adriano's (an Italian restaurant, BTW! )...And yes, her...ahem...womanhoods made a great impression on him as well... ;D Richie looks like a good-tempered, placid, decent man...on the surface. Well, that's all that Maddie can express a judgment upon, because that's all she can see, for now... To her eyes, Richie is so different from David. He looks...safer. So, do I find their chemistry plausible? Hmm, I didn't see a lot of chemistry there, to say the truth. Obviously Richie intrigues Maddie, he's close to her idea of how an '80s male partner should be: he woes her with kindness, he acts like a companion (they play Trivial Pursuit at Maddie's), he respects her (in fact, he doesn't pick at her like David always does)... In a nutshell: Maddie can let her hair down when she is with Richie, while David makes her stiff and tense. Her "relationship" with Richie is easier...But rather boring, I think! Our perception of Richie differs from Maddie's because we can see what he actually drives, what his "job" consists of (BTW, that stuff is REALLY sold nowadays!) , and the size of his wallet.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 20:51:49 GMT -5
5. What happens between Maddie and Richie after David leaves the bar? They dance and BS some more, but that’s it. This is waaay before Maddie feels her chastity belt pinching her…there is no way her and Richie “took old one eye to the optometrist”.
(And I agree...these are GREAT questions!)
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 21:15:52 GMT -5
3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day?Ah, I was wondering about this myself! - Why does David tolerate Richie's act on Maddie? Hmm, he suffers from inferiority complex, maybe? After all, he came second... - Why is David so angry the next day? Because Richie is beating him at his own game! Richie is hitting on his dream girlfriend! That's what he's always done anyway... In "Those Lips, Those Lies" we apprehend Richie used to borrow David's toys and never return them, stole his allowance, and had a weakness for his brother's girls, too... David's cold attitude toward his beloved "Wally" should come as no surprise at all, IMO! So, why the anger explosion in the bathroom? Why? Because, this guy, Richie, comes out of nowhere, with his pocket full of bucks, a smirk on his face, and starts making his move on Maddie...I mean, who the hell is he? David worked with Maddie side by side for months, trying to earn her trust, her admiration, day after day, with effort... And...Ta-da! Here Richie comes! AARGH! What a way to ruin a guy's day! (...Please, notice the rhyme, gang... ) P.S. Snowy York, eh? It's lonely in rainy Pescara, too, buddy!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 21:19:03 GMT -5
Tony, this is our night, bro! A David and Richie episode! Our cup of tea, isn't it? P.S. Hey, gang! Don't be shy! I know the depths of our understanding leave you speechless... But c'mon! Make us company!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 27, 2009 21:24:56 GMT -5
Ah, tis true. I suspect a lot of folks have some conflicts. I'm going to jump off for a bit to do some work and I'll hop back in shortly thereafter!
I do love this episode. So cool in so many ways.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 21:31:02 GMT -5
Ah, tis true. I suspect a lot of folks have some conflicts. I'm going to jump off for a bit to do some work and I'll hop back in shortly thereafter! I do love this episode. So cool in so many ways. OK man! I'll hold the fort in the meantime! I love this episode, too!! It gives such a great insight into brotherhood and manhood... I like it!!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 21:43:12 GMT -5
And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? If we are talking about his fight with Agnes, I think under the surface Dave is bugged that he had to go to his brother to help save Maddie’s house, and that was the LAST person he ever wanted to have to beg for a hand. Great great point, graycav! I so agree with you! David wanted to be the one who'd find a solution to her problem... I believe he wished with every fiber of his being to deserve that tender embrace and that "I-worship-you-in-awe" look on Maddie's face...
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