|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 21:49:50 GMT -5
The wonderful thing about this episode though, is that I think Maddie is more grateful and accepting of David at the show's close - Dave's a real guy, and she's learning to depend on him. manitoba!! You're officially my R&B sis! All right! Great point! P.S. BTW, have you got a giant poster of Dave somewhere in your house, too? ;D
|
|
|
Post by jpen on Jan 27, 2009 22:13:16 GMT -5
Hey all! Sorry I had to "post and run"--those darn kids expect to be fed and have help with their homework--sheesh! ;D Anyway, great responses so far, folks! I'll put in my two cents in a minute (well, one cent anyway , but I have to agree that I didn't see much chemistry between Maddie and Richie...I felt like the situation was a setup, though an ingenious one to reveal more about David's character especially. I think on the surface, Maddie thought Richie was funny and relaxed and successful, which she had always found attractive before; and importantly, as IBM pointed out, he doesn't "pick at her" like David does... Of course, we know why David "picks at her"--it's because a) she drives him crazy; b) he wants her to be happier and c) BECAUSE HE LOVES HER!!!
|
|
|
Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 27, 2009 22:16:27 GMT -5
The wonderful thing about this episode though, is that I think Maddie is more grateful and accepting of David at the show's close - Dave's a real guy, and she's learning to depend on him. manitoba!! You're officially my R&B sis! All right! Great point! P.S. BTW, have you got a giant poster of Dave somewhere in your house, too? ;D HAHA IBM Sistah, guess what? I DO have a giant poster of Dave in my house! It's a giant head on a blue background. Bought it when I was 14.
|
|
|
Post by jpen on Jan 27, 2009 22:32:49 GMT -5
3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? This is a complicated one. It is obvious Dave has more than a fleeting interest in Maddie at this point, and I’m not just talking about getting her horizontal. I suppose David thought this was a win win situation for him. Since he knew Richie would eventually blow it, he could let him flirt with Maddie feeling pretty confident it would not go anywhere, and by allowing same, he keeps the visibility of his burning embers for Maddie hidden from her view. Richie thinks they have a business only relationship and Maddie remains confused as to David’s true intentions. Advantage: Addison. And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? If we are talking about his fight with Agnes, I think under the surface Dave is bugged that he had to go to his brother to help save Maddie’s house, and that was the LAST person he ever wanted to have to beg for a hand. Such as it was, he wanted to go to any lengths, even being mean to Ms. Dipesto, to keep that a secret. graycav, I think these are great points. I hadn't thought about David strategizing this far--knowing that Richie would screw up and that therefore his flirtation with Maddie would go nowhere. I also think that pride is playing a role here, as it usually does with these two. David doesn't want to admit to Richie that he wants Maddie, but he hasn't yet "got" her, so he just plays it cool, as though the thought never entered his mind. Additionally, in spite of the angst he feels watching them dance, he doesn't realize how deep his feelings for Maddie run. So the next day, when Maddie comes in with a spring in her step and a certain softness in her eye, he's angry--not only at the situation, but also at HIMSELF. I can practically see him thinking, "Addison, you're an idiot!" It hits him then--he's had to ask his brother for a handout so he can "save" the woman who is becoming the most important person in his life--and it's just possible that Richie might actually have "gotten" to Maddie. At that moment, it seems like he's gambled everything, and lost...
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 22:34:32 GMT -5
manitoba!! You're officially my R&B sis! All right! Great point! P.S. BTW, have you got a giant poster of Dave somewhere in your house, too? ;D HAHA IBM Sistah, guess what? I DO have a giant poster of Dave in my house! It's a giant head on a blue background. Bought it when I was 14. AHA! I KNEW IT!!!! You're COOL, girl!!! OK, you've been a fan of his longer than me, I admit it... But that attitude...I've had it since my teen years! Boy, we gotta talk one of these days...
|
|
|
Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 27, 2009 22:42:33 GMT -5
3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? This is a complicated one. It is obvious Dave has more than a fleeting interest in Maddie at this point, and I’m not just talking about getting her horizontal. I suppose David thought this was a win win situation for him. Since he knew Richie would eventually blow it, he could let him flirt with Maddie feeling pretty confident it would not go anywhere, and by allowing same, he keeps the visibility of his burning embers for Maddie hidden from her view. Richie thinks they have a business only relationship and Maddie remains confused as to David’s true intentions. Advantage: Addison. And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? If we are talking about his fight with Agnes, I think under the surface Dave is bugged that he had to go to his brother to help save Maddie’s house, and that was the LAST person he ever wanted to have to beg for a hand. Such as it was, he wanted to go to any lengths, even being mean to Ms. Dipesto, to keep that a secret. graycav, I think these are great points. I hadn't thought about David strategizing this far--knowing that Richie would screw up and that therefore his flirtation with Maddie would go nowhere. I also think that pride is playing a role here, as it usually does with these two. David doesn't want to admit to Richie that he wants Maddie, but he hasn't yet "got" her, so he just plays it cool, as though the thought never entered his mind. Additionally, in spite of the angst he feels watching them dance, he doesn't realize how deep his feelings for Maddie run. So the next day, when Maddie comes in with a spring in her step and a certain softness in her eye, he's angry--not only at the situation, but also at HIMSELF. I can practically see him thinking, "Addison, you're an idiot!" It hits him then--he's had to ask his brother for a handout so he can "save" the woman who is becoming the most important person in his life--and it's just possible that Richie might actually have "gotten" to Maddie. At that moment, it seems like he's gambled everything, and lost... Isn't that so like Dave, he places so much anger on himself - remember how he was acting in Camille? You guys are so right, his vulnerability lies in his pride - outwardly he's always so confident and sure of himself. Then BAM, Ritchie, technically an outsider to their budding relationship comes along, and whacks him upside the head. Dave then becomes a little more unsure of himself when it comes to Maddie.... and the game starts again.
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 22:45:24 GMT -5
4. When do you think Maddie's feelings toward Richie change? Have her feelings for David changed at all by the final scene?She changes her attitude toward Richie at her place, when the cat gets out of the bag! Richie did not actually earn that money, he just found it by a simple twist of Fate. BTW, I feel bad for Dave when Maddie says: "what a couple of nincompoops"... Why does she says such a thing? I mean, David always worked honestly (all right, "worked" is a high word, I know) in his life, he didn't steal any money from his dad's cigar box! He made mistakes, just like we do, - I'm thinking of Tess, in particular - but that's okay, no? That's life! Anyway, I think of David as a go-ahead, down to earth individual, who would never undertake to invent square hula hoops and make a living out of that! IMO, Dave is much more adult than Richie, in his own (COOL!!) way! Richie... Have her feelings for David changed at all by the final scene?Hell yes! ;D And... !!! manitoba said all that's to say: Dave is a reliable guy; he gives her the reward money, - a completely altruistic gesture...He could hold some of it for himself, don't you think? - and... IMO, she begins to suspect that his feelings toward her are...sincere. He likes (Loves!) her not just for how she looks...He's deeper than that. And in that scene, in the final scene...That smile on her face when she tells him "You're gonna die wondering"...Looks like she's opening up to him! HALLELUJAH!! ...And, BTW, David didn't die wondering!! To Heiress Human, gang... ;D
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 22:51:37 GMT -5
Is the background music of this episode great or what?
In the opening scene it sets the mood so well!
|
|
|
Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 27, 2009 22:53:45 GMT -5
HAHA IBM Sistah, guess what? I DO have a giant poster of Dave in my house! It's a giant head on a blue background. Bought it when I was 14. AHA! I KNEW IT!!!! You're COOL, girl!!! OK, you've been a fan of his longer than me, I admit it... But that attitude...I've had it since my teen years! Boy, we gotta talk one of these days... Yeah for sure! Anytime, girl! Also responding to IBM's recent post about Dave being reliable, it always felt like David had to prove himself over and over to win Maddie's vulnerability - and this EP is a good example. We know now how deep her insecurity ran, especially after seasons 4 and 5. I think at the beginning of the series, Maddie had so much potential to open up, sad that it got lost near the end, but it was stunning to watch her begin to give a little.
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 23:18:53 GMT -5
AHA! I KNEW IT!!!! You're COOL, girl!!! OK, you've been a fan of his longer than me, I admit it... But that attitude...I've had it since my teen years! Boy, we gotta talk one of these days... Yeah for sure! Anytime, girl! Also responding to IBM's recent post about Dave being reliable, it always felt like David had to prove himself over and over to win Maddie's vulnerability - and this EP is a good example. We know now how deep her insecurity ran, especially after seasons 4 and 5. I think at the beginning of the series, Maddie had so much potential to open up, sad that it got lost near the end, but it was stunning to watch her begin to give a little. That's GREAT!!! Thanks, sis! Yeah, that's true. David is insecure about himself when he gets down to Maddie...while it seems he always has an angle on anything else and is always able to land on his feet despite all circumstances. Maddie, on the other hand, has always been a little standoffish. She was the one to convince, and boy, did Dave apply all his strength of will to the task! I just wish she could get to see a little piece of his heart...No matter at what point in the series, just...somewhere. Someday.
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 27, 2009 23:29:02 GMT -5
From the Speculations & Revelations department, with a vengeance... LOL! ;D
5. What happens between Maddie and Richie after David leaves the bar?
HA! Good question! Hmm, let's see... A little dancing, some talking about David, some more dancing, a drink or two, a drive back home (were Martha Reeves and The Vandellas playing in the car with them? ;D) , and then, a good night kiss...On the cheek or...... ;D
BTW, what's that big smile on Maddie's face when she walks in the morning after???
|
|
|
Post by rose35 on Jan 27, 2009 23:33:25 GMT -5
hey all! Sorry i wasnt here early too, but yes my life as a mommy took over and i had baths to give and little boys who didnt want to go to sleep JPEN thanks for the great great questions! And Graycav MAN love the new Avatar! Can we hope to get a new one with each coming episode we review? 1: What do we learn about Growing Up Addison in this episode? What, if any, bearing does this have on David's "live fast--die young--leave clean underwear" motto and seemingly incessant optimism? Well it sure goes to show you boys will be boys or brothers will be brothers and sometimes you never grow up acting like children with your brother. I think Ritchie was alwasy like he is today, David does have a few hair brained ideas up his sleeve but not as bad as Ritchies. I think bpoth brothers competed against each other growing up and well it seems like they still do to this day. Look how Ritchie wants to throw all his so called money in Davids face so what does David do in the beginning try to show off Maddie at diiner as his money in a way. Ahh gotta love those Addison brother. I really enjoy the episodes/scenes that have Ritchie in them It was great to learn more ABOUT OUR dAVE! We ARE really starting to delve more into our main characters now in the show. Oh and just adding "Let's go Steelers! LOL
|
|
|
Post by diane on Jan 27, 2009 23:45:15 GMT -5
I wasn't sure I was going to join in this week...this episode is a popular one, and one that gets discussed fairly regularly, so I wasn't sure I had anything new to add. But Jen's Qs are really great, so I am going to jump right in:
1. What do we learn about Growing Up Addison in this episode? What, if any, bearing does this have on David's "live fast--die young--leave clean underwear" motto and seemingly incessant optimism?
This is lesson 1 in "Growing Up Addison"and there is lots to learn, even though you get a fuller picture once David's Dad comes into the mix....(honestly, we've incorporated the Addison clan into so much of Virtual, that sometimes I forget which parts are REAL ML, and which are VM "fantasies".)
I think Richie is painted as a loveable screw-up...posed so to show David as the more responsible of the two brothers. It is funny that Maddie at this point identifies David as an opportunist and a charming con man....but yet, that is who Richie really is. The whole episode is written as a classic example of sibiling rivalry, yet I see the "boys" as a loveable and loyal twosome who could tell some stories about their adventures.
2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? Do you find their chemistry plausible? How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's?
The attraction in my opinion is that Richie, at first glance, appears to be an upgraded David. Richie has the bucks, the style...yet he has the sense of humor and the Addison swagger that Maddie finds attractive in David.....and which makes her run in the opposite direction from David. Richie is "safe David".
It does not take her long to figure out her mistake. I get absolutely no chemistry between Maddie and Richie.
3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day?
Our David cares about Maddie...he picks up on her interest, and at first, he believes that Richie has made a change in his life. He doesn't believe it...but he is going with it in order to make Maddie happy....no matter how miserable it makes him (Talk about a scene...when David stares longingly from the shadows!!). And don't forget....Richie's magic thirty something thousand dollars will solve Maddie's most pressing problem......David is all about making Maddie happy!
The anger? Rich has screwed up YET AGAIN....and David is livid because he put his faith in him, and is again disappointed. And even worse, Maddie is now embroiled in Richie's schemes......and David is not amused!
4. When do you think Maddie's feelings toward Richie change? Have her feelings for David changed at all by the final scene?
Maddie is a smart lady......I am not quite sure that she didn't figure it out that first night, and was merely torturing David a little. But I am pretty sure that about 5 minutes into Trivial Pursuit, she knew it wasn't gonna work.......and that he was only a shadow of the real David.
I don't think her feelings towards David have so much changed as she has a better appreciation of who he is, and what he means to her.
And, from the Speculations & Revelations department:
5. What happens between Maddie and Richie after David leaves the bar?
Maddie's standard Addison "kiss off" (without kissing!) at her front door.
6. What do you think is Maddie's "terrible confession"?
The mind reels!!!
I need to throw in a question here.......I have always felt that the writers were still fleshing out the characters here. I have always thought it was weird that the three of them were in a club/bar...and that Maddie seemed to have a comfort level there -- sitting alone at the bar, talking on the phone, laughing and seeming quite at home.......weirdsville, as far as I am concerned!
But here's the question: WHO THE HELL WAS SHE TALKING TO???
|
|
|
Post by rose35 on Jan 27, 2009 23:46:46 GMT -5
v2. Why do you think Maddie is attracted to Richie? Do you find their chemistry plausible? How does our perception of Richie differ from Maddie's? Well right away MaDDIE heard money regarding Ritchie and we know of our dear Maddie that for along time money was very important in her life, she really didnt have much else but her money it seems, not many friends to hang with, her parents live far away from her, so she did lots of modeling and racked up lots of money and lived very comfortably of awhile, and of course Maddie is brought up in money too so she believes thats the kinda guy she needs, one with money. To her she knows David doesnt have any so she is intrigued to meet this brother of his who in her mind must be a good hard working man to have all this money. Little does she know that Dave and US know that Ritchie is worse off than our dear old Dave And nope no chemistry between M/R for sure!
|
|
|
Post by rose35 on Jan 28, 2009 0:02:38 GMT -5
First off:YAY for Diane! Love seeing you post when you can! And your post really was awesome! I loved the part about VM and forgetting what was tv show and fanfic! I've done that myself a few times cause ive read your VM like a million times! Well i'm my book VM is real LOL 3. Why does David tolerate (encourage?) Richie's flirtation with Maddie? And what exactly is fueling David's anger the next day? Well this was still early in the show, David hasnt been open yet for all to really see how he feels for Maddie, in this episode though he really cant deny it anymore but i think David thought he had no chance what so ever with Maddie. He knows Maddie's type isnt him so when Ritchie comes along shaking his money in Daves face ,Dave feels well maybe Ritchie can give her what i can't. So he steps aside and by doing that we see that David's heart is breaking in two I think Davids anger comes from: Jealousy, defeat, being heartbroken. He wants to be the one to make Maddie happy and in one way he did that but in the other Ritchie helped him to do that.
|
|