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Post by diane on Jan 20, 2009 21:47:22 GMT -5
Okey dokey...thanks for your patience, folks. Glad you all had fun boosting your post counts!
I've gotta mention, the first time I saw this episode, I was majorly excited because a main character who had been on one of my soaps played Vivian. I was very impressed that she had made it to the ML "big time".
OK... the Qs:
1. What do you think about the male/female stereotypes in this episode? It is clear that Vivian is suffering in the family business...but what do you think about David's approach to Maddie in this episode?
2. This is a silly question, I know, but let's face it folks, this is not one of the best episodes, and it is certainly not full of deep topics to discuss.....so I move to MADDIE'S HAIR RETROSPECTIVE...who thinks they were auditioning hairdressers in this episode?
3. This episode continues the trend of Maddie continuing to physically assault David. Do you react to her kicks, pushes, punches, etc as a good thing? Is it really too early in their relationship for her to be that physical with him?
4. Maddie's conversation with Preston Holt has her revealing personal info about her modelling days. Is Maddie opening up to a stranger something you might expect, or possibly just a writer's viewpoint without knowing her longterm character?
5. In spite of the fact that I think the storyline of this episode is weak, it's got to be one of the most quotable episodes. (I think the writer, Joe Gannon, must have switched to stand-up with so many good one liners).
What's your favorite quotable quote...or two...from this episode?
OK...shall we start with these?
diane
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Post by jpen on Jan 20, 2009 21:57:14 GMT -5
2. "Maddie's Hair Retrospective"...LOL...Diane, you and graycav are ON tonight! Yep, definite ridiculousness in the hair department, though I love Maddie's stakeout hair (the "anti-do"), and I wish she would've worn it soft like that more often...
It is kinda ironic, though, that in this ep, her hair is most "fussy" when she herself is showing her softer side...
There. That's all the "deep meaning" I can get out of it. I tried! ;D
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Post by diane on Jan 20, 2009 21:57:18 GMT -5
It may be de rigueur, but I am posting my quotes so I can go get something to eat......
I love the dry ones....like when Maddie says to David, "You missed the house."
Also when Omar Gauss asks her..."Were you prone when Holt told you that?"
But my favorite part of the episode is not funny, but just fun. I love the way, as she is leaving David's office, Maddie says..."We solved a mystery!"
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Post by lin212 on Jan 20, 2009 21:57:45 GMT -5
1. The male/female stereotype is pretty strong in this episode. Vivian is a victim of a father and brother who feel that, as a woman, she is not able to offer any value to the family business. David also comes across with much of the same attitude toward Maddie at the beginning of the episode. He tells her that she should leave the real detective work to him. Her value lies in her name and ability to attract clients. I believe that his views change during the case as he sees Maddie's persistance and determination to get to the bottom of the case. He finally admits, "You're all right, kid."
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 20, 2009 22:04:15 GMT -5
Lin nailed it. Since this was episode 2 (3 if you count the pilot) they were obviously still working on building the characters and their interaction. At this point, there was still some value in milking the differences in the sexes, even though this was touched on earlier (ie sissyfighter, etc). I think Dave and Maddie's interaction is much less, well, severe than that faced by Vivian, who is facing an obvious sexist bias created by both her father and her brother.
I find that interesting that Mr. Baker disrespects Vivian's abilities, yet won't make any major decisions without consulting the spirit of his deceased wife. Odd.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 20, 2009 22:05:38 GMT -5
The hair do roulette in this episode is like watching Fox News Channel on fast forward! I'll have to take a peek at IBM's screen shots and do a "do" count.
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Post by lin212 on Jan 20, 2009 22:05:47 GMT -5
2. We do see some variations on hair in this one. I know many don't care for the curly side do, but somehow I like it in this scene. Maddie reminds me of a vamp from Hollywood of years past. I hear Lauren Bacall in her voice when she says something like, "You're not so bad yourself, fella"...the expression on her face, her body language. It works for me.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 20, 2009 22:06:58 GMT -5
3. This episode continues the trend of Maddie continuing to physically assault David. Do you react to her kicks, pushes, punches, etc as a good thing? Is it really too early in their relationship for her to be that physical with him?
I never thought that Maddie slapping/punching/kicking/biting David was either out of character or inappropriate for this early stage of their relationship. They kinda started her out as this ballsy independent chick who could 'throw a real punch' if necessary, and I think that it's natural for her character to take her frustrations out on David.
Plus, it's a great way to work out unrequited sexual tension! ;D
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Post by jpen on Jan 20, 2009 22:09:13 GMT -5
1. David still thinks Maddie is "in over her head" in this episode, and is not yet fully appreciating her intelligence and perhaps more importantly, her indomitable will! When he says to her, "Leave the actual detecting to me," it's pretty condescending. Then he warns her against approaching Preston Holt--an idea she calls "common sense" and he terms "nonsense." And of course, the whole "horse" comment...the bottom line is, he doesn't think she knows what she's doing, and he's not afraid to tell her so, in a not-so-respectful way.
I do think his respect for her increases after the stakeout proves that there's something amiss in the Omar Gauss-Baker connection (and after she very practically points out to him that some of his stakeout techniques are a little ridiculous..."Why can't we just use the pipe?").
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 20, 2009 22:09:52 GMT -5
3. As a dude, the physicality of Maddie in dealing with Dave doesn't bug me all that much. I suppose it reminds me of the scuffles all young boys get into....I mean, if you had a disagreement, you settled it with a short bout of fisticuffs...and then you got back to playing. Nobody ever really got hurt and nobody held a grudge.
This may sound odd, but I'd much rather get a kick in the shins than the (non-physical) kick in the gut that "grown up" girls can use to such great effect later in life.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 20, 2009 22:11:42 GMT -5
1. What do you think about the male/female stereotypes in this episode? It is clear that Vivian is suffering in the family business...but what do you think about David's approach to Maddie in this episode?
There is definitely that feeling that because Vivian is the daughter her father thinks that her brother should run the family business. Even when he seems to have failed several times with other big projects.
David's approach to Maddie seems to be the opposite. Of course, he is trying to make sure she stays at Blue Moon, but I think we see the first signs of his feelings for her. He tells her he believes in her even when he thinks she is wrong. He encourages her or "spurrs her on" to continue honing her detective skills.....however funny that is in this episode. And before he gets kicked in the foot he tells her not to worry about losing SRT, that there will be other clients. He does seem sincere here ......as far as we can tell for being so early in the show and their relationship.
But, he really does not like the idea of her going out with that playboy Holt. You can see it on his face when Holt leaves. And you can tell he is becoming smitten in the last office scene. And Maddie----she looks like she just wants to grab him and lay a big wet one on him!!
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Post by jpen on Jan 20, 2009 22:12:02 GMT -5
2. We do see some variations on hair in this one. I know many don't care for the curly side do, but somehow I like it in this scene. Maddie reminds me of a vamp from Hollywood of years past. I hear Lauren Bacall in her voice when she says something like, "You're not so bad yourself, fella"...the expression on her face, her body language. It works for me. I don't like the hair, but I totally agree with you about the retro look and sound in general...and Bacall et all were pretty strong chicks! ;D
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 20, 2009 22:14:03 GMT -5
4. I didn't consider her discussing her modeling days out of character at all. First off, it was a way for the writers to put a little more depth (VERY little) on that part of her background.
Secondly, Preston Holt was one loaded dude, and that is the type of person that Maddie probably hung around with....before she became destitute.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 20, 2009 22:17:04 GMT -5
Good Qs! And nr. 2... LOL! ;D
But first things first!
1. What do you think about the male/female stereotypes in this episode? It is clear that Vivian is suffering in the family business...but what do you think about David's approach to Maddie in this episode?
Well, it's true: David is a tad bit sexist in this episode... He starts the charade at SRT, saying Maddie is a nun... BTW, what's that senile old man doin' in that scene? Boy, whenever I see him standing there with that look on his face I'd just like to punch him to the ground!
Ehm, sorry ladies...
Then the Preston Holt thingie... Hmm, that was a tactless approach.
BUT, watching the scene outside SRT where Dave is trying to stop Maddie from meeting Holt, I change my mind a little about his despicable behavior through the episode... He's trying to protect her! And what about the Papa Bear/Sweet cakes scene? (ROFL! ;D) Once again, David obviously cares for her safety! He put her out of a hell of a spot, didn't he?
And then he also tells her: "But I believe in you"...
Hmm, well, I conclude that D already feels something for Maddie, and cares for her welfare... But Maddie is such an easy target! It's just an irresistible temptation for a guy like him to mock her! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 20, 2009 22:17:45 GMT -5
Sorry, just don't like the side swoop thang!!
That hairdresser lost, I think!! BTW, Ms. Dipesto's do looks good!!
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