|
Post by rose35 on Jan 6, 2009 18:10:21 GMT -5
Happy New Year all! Well i am posting this alittle early tonight due to i need to start making dinner for my family, So i would hate for this to be posted late in case i couldnt get away at 7:30pm. I know a few of you won't be around early or at all tonight but please feel free to jump in anytime you can, I dont think any of our threads ever close I had some great help with my questions from our very own Italianbluemooner. Thanks IBM so much! Again feel free to add any questions to this thread if you feel something wasnt touched upon 1. Why do you think David really wants to throw a wedding for Maddie? 2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter, like David guessed? 3. There is much argument on if Maddie lied about David not being the father of her baby, so in regards to her speech in the hospital, where she tells David she wishes with all her heart the baby inside her was his, does it make you believe she didn't lie then to David and really believes the baby is Sam's? 4. Why do you think Walter married Maddie? For one he just met her and he knew of all her baggage , such as David and the baby. When it all blows up at the end , do you feel bad for him or feel like he should have known this would happen? 5. What is David going to prove by throwing Maddie a wedding? 6. About David's behavior at the church: is he trying to make Maddie jealous? 7. What do you believe David's perception of Walter is? Does his perception remain the same or does it change in the course of the episode? If so, when? Extra: David mentions the movie Play Misty For Me to Walter during their first talk in the office, Any thoughts on this movie in regards to the show/episode? Have FUN all!
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 19:41:32 GMT -5
Evening all! I'm so happy our rewatching get-togethers starting again, folks! ;D My pleasure, Rose!! Thank you so much for letting me have such a fun time!!!! ;D Well then, let's get started! There's so much to say tonight! 1. Why do you think David really wants to throw a wedding for Maddie?To make her miserable!! LOL! ;D By golly, was that a David-kind of wedding or what? ;D He arranged the whole thing just like Maddie would’ve hated most, from the groom’s perfectly fitting dress (ROFLMAO!! ), to the folks “hired” to attend to the ceremony, to the crazy stuff hanging from the limo’s bumper! LOL! Maddie herself foreshadows the upcoming disaster. In fact, watch the scene with Wally at her house, where she says: “I can see him right now, laughing so hard his ribs are breaking….This man is trying to dismantle our lives…This is a dare…He’s making mock…etc etc” Now I wanna put my 2 cent about her attitude toward him: Boy oh boy, how can this lady not see the depth of this man’s soul, yet? How can she ignore, after all this time spent together, that David really cares for her and loves her with all his heart? And how can she not realize her act is hurting him? Oh, another observation: As I’m deeply convinced Dave’s a very sensitive, very fragile person, I believe his act is just a way to tickle his sufferance under the chin. This man SEEMS a superficial, childish, over the top person, but, IMO, this is just his way to exorcize the pain he feels deep inside his heart. I mean, he always does it! Watch the conversation he has with Maddie at the office, for example. Maddie says: “I understand, you were hurt.” ; and how does he react? He sneers at her. But guys, please put yourself in your shoes for a minute. How is one supposed to survive such tearing up sorrow? And, always IMO, by throwing this wedding Dave is trying to self destruct.Moreover, he gets hammered at the bachelor party by his choice. Why? To numb himself. He would never have been able to pull through that wedding with his brain in focus. No, he needs to daze his feelings… I gotta tell you, I really can understand David here... The feeling of rejection is such a painful one...
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 19:57:31 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter, like David guessed?Because she’s ashamed of what she’s done. Maddie’s parents believe their little girl is a responsible, staid person. The thought that their little daughter would be able to make impulsive decisions, such as marrying a guy met on a train a few days earlier, would NEVER cross their minds. If her parents knew any of this, they would get EXTREMELY disappointed with her. And Maddie is suuuch a good girl! We don’t wanna get mommy and daddy angry at us, do we? LOL!
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:11:07 GMT -5
1. Why do you think David really wants to throw a wedding for Maddie?
I think he is really “making mock”, like Maddie, says. It is also another way for him to cover up what he is really feeling. I think this entire episode is really about how David protects his ego and hides his broken heart and how Maddie plays the “Avoidance Game”..... with a capitol A!!
|
|
|
Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 20:12:40 GMT -5
3. There is much argument on if Maddie lied about David not being the father of her baby, so in regards to her speech in the hospital, where she tells David she wishes with all her heart the baby inside her was his, does it make you believe she didn't lie then to David and really believes the baby is Sam's? I'm really curious to read your take on this! You folks lived the ML mania back in the '80s! You must've discussed A LOT about it! You lucky... LOL! Anyhow, this is my opinion: Yes, I think she believed Dr. Hill indeed. Maddie is a very rational lady. If Science makes a statement, by golly that must be the truth! IMO, Maddie was sincere with David when she told him in “Tracks…” that David was not the father of her baby… It was all Doc Hill's fault!! Darn him!!!
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:17:38 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter, like David guessed?
Because she knows that her parents would 1) not understand her irrational behavior 2) they would be disappointed in her and 3) she knew the reason she married him. .....Avoidance....
I have also thought that possibly she did not even think about her parents until David said something. She made such a quick decision and really had not had time to actually think about what she had done, much less her parents.
|
|
|
Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 20:20:39 GMT -5
1. Why does David want to throw this wedding?
Well, I agree with IBM that Maddie nails it in her conversation with Walter: It's a dare, a challenge, throwing down the gauntlet, etc. Maddie has hurt him badly; she has made her proverbial bed, and he is going to make her lie in it--with a vengeance. She says she's "never been so happy" (the exact words, BTW, that David uses about their relationship in TttM)? Fine--let her prove it, in front of God and everybody.
But also, David has a healthy helping of PRIDE--they both do, which keeps each from giving an inch to the other. Of course David's hurt...but he's not going to admit it, not to Maddie, not to the Wobblies, not to Terri either ("She never got a glove on me"). Throwing this wedding is a very public way to say "I'm fine--nothin' wrong with me! I'm totally over it--and over her."
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:24:58 GMT -5
3. There is much argument on if Maddie lied about David not being the father of her baby, so in regards to her speech in the hospital, where she tells David she wishes with all her heart the baby inside her was his, does it make you believe she didn't lie then to David and really believes the baby is Sam's?
Ah, yes, the old Burger King theory as to whether Maddie told a big ‘ol whopper with cheese concerning paternity. I don’t think she told David Sam was the father to intentionally hurt him. I think she knew in her heart the baby was David’s, but is going on the information her Doctor gave her. Did she have doubts when she told David……yes. Does that mean she lied? ………maybe, but I think she chose to say it was not his as another way to push him away and Avoid her fears….with a capital A!! She could have waited with that information……she got really good at waiting!! LOL!
Correct me if I am wrong, but did she actually say to David that the baby was Sam's? He asked about Sam, but she told him Sam was none of his business.
|
|
|
Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 20:27:28 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter, like David guessed? Because she knows that her parents would 1) not understand her irrational behavior 2) they would be disappointed in her and 3) she knew the reason she married him. .....Avoidance.... I have also thought that possibly she did not even think about her parents until David said something. She made such a quick decision and really had not had time to actually think about what she had done, much less her parents. I completely agree, bees. Also, I think telling her parents will make her marriage real, the same way that her mother confronting her about her pregnancy made that real. As you mentioned, Maddie is trying to avoid just about everything right now--most especially her feelings for David, but also the consequences of all the choices she's made. Her life is pretty close to being a disaster: she's pregnant (she thinks) by a man she doesn't love, married to another man she doesn't love, and she's hurt the bejeezus out of the man she really does love. Certainly not the picture of success in life that her parents would hope for!
|
|
gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
|
Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 20:28:35 GMT -5
Hey, all! Great observations so far; this is fun. Anyway...I'm answering these questions completely out-of-order, partly as an homage to David (who, as we know, is always discombobulated), and partly because I've got no organizational skills. 3. There is much argument on if Maddie lied about David not being the father of her baby, so in regards to her speech in the hospital, where she tells David she wishes with all her heart the baby inside her was his, does it make you believe she didn't lie then to David and really believes the baby is Sam's? I think the writers really mucked up this plot-point, because there sure seem to be some inconsistencies as far as Maddie knowing the paternity of the baby goes. For example, in "Eek, A Spouse!", when David asks Maddie to confirm that she's not having his baby, she just turns from him and tells him, kind of petulantly and not at all convincingly, that yes, she's already told him, the baby's not his. That seems like a bit of a red-flag; Maddie definitely sounds like she's lying. Likewise, David seems incredulous. However, in this episode, David seems convinced that the baby's not his. During Maddie's speech at the end of the episode (which, in case I haven't mentioned this enough elsewhere, is my absolute favorite scene), he tells her, quite dejectedly, that he doesn't know why he bothers staying, when "the baby's not mine, you're not mine." This, to me, is an indication that the audience is supposed to believe, like Dave, that Maddie is sure the baby is Sam's. As for Maddie's line about wishing "this was your baby inside me"...dang, but I can't help but believe her. She just seems so sincere, so upset. Marrying Walter was calculated, meant to be hurtful (of course, for the larger purpose of not de-Daving Dave by turning him into a Daddy), but I don't believe that Maddie is cruel enough to let David go on thinking that the baby's not his, if she knows that it is. Although I'm sure she's probably avoiding thinking about the paternity thing too hard--lest she do the simple math and realize that, hey, it's gotta be Dave's--I think she's beyond trying to hurt David. She tells him as much. This is a wee bit of a digression, but I think that final scene between them in the hospital is one of the most sincere moments they've ever shared. I consider it to be on-par with the hotel scenes in "Big Man on Mullberry Street", and the trunk scene in "Maddie's Turn to Cry": I think Maddie's being as honest with David as she's ever been.
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:29:52 GMT -5
4. Why do you think Walter married Maddie? For one he just met her and he knew of all her baggage , such as David and the baby. When it all blows up at the end , do you feel bad for him or feel like he should have known this would happen?
He married her because he was quite possibly just as lonely as Maddie felt at the time. He found someone who had seemed to open their heart to him and maybe no one had ever done that before. I think he figured out what he had stumbled into when they have their first argument concerning have a wedding. He says something like…” this is starting to seem like something else…” He knows then that Maddie is running from David, but I think he really did feel something for her. Love? I don’t know. Maybe just that common ground that they found on the train. But, I really do not feel bad for him.
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:35:26 GMT -5
This is a wee bit of a digression, but I think that final scene between them in the hospital is one of the most sincere moments they've ever shared. I consider it to be on-par with the hotel scenes in "Big Man on Mullberry Street", and the trunk scene in "Maddie's Turn to Cry": I think Maddie's being as honest with David as she's ever been. Hi gorky and welcome!! I agree with you on the above. This was the most honest Maddie had ever been, I think. The ending really left us with so much hope for those two!!
|
|
|
Post by lin212 on Jan 6, 2009 20:36:03 GMT -5
Evening, everyone. So glad it's ML night!
1. Why do you think David really wants to throw a wedding for Maddie?
In the office scene, Maddie went to great lengths (over the top) to declare her love for Walter when David questioned her motives for marrying him. He tells her that he understands she was in a jam having someone else's baby and was desperate. This infuriates Maddie as only David can. So, I believe that David threw down the gauntlet and DARED her to get up in front of everyone (including David himself) and "marry" Walter. He wanted to put her to the test because he knew that she really did not love Walter.
|
|
gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
|
Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 20:37:53 GMT -5
Well-put, bees--I do think Walter and Maddie had a mutual confusion. If I'm recalling correctly, in "Tracks of My Tears", Walter talks about having no idea what he wants to do with himself (something pertaining to his job?); Maddie talks about having no idea how to handle the situation with David. Two disparate situations, but the common ground there is helplessness. Neither one of them knows how to solve their problems. And as for Maddie, she's spent four months in stasis--she needs action, needs to do something, needs to be proactive. So here's this guy, and he's nice and he's easy to talk to, and she doesn't love him, which just makes it so much easier. So she marries him. As for Walter, I think he may have sincerely loved Maddie. I don't tend to buy into love-at-first-sight, but Walter just seems so earnest in his parting scene in "And The Flesh Was Made Word", about falling in love with someone you barely know. And maybe he should've seen this all coming--his scene at the beginning, with David, where he acknowledges how much Maddie cares for him, really makes it seem like Walter knows the marriage is going to be a challenge--but I can't help but feel sorry for him. In fact, I really did like Walter; he was a good guy. Edit: Thanks for the welcome! You guys are so friendly here--it's great.
|
|
|
Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:38:10 GMT -5
5. What is David going to prove by throwing Maddie a wedding?
I agree with jpen. He is trying to show everyone, Maddie, Walter, Richie, Terri, and the wobblies, that his world has not been rocked by Maddie Hayes…..all to the contrary.
|
|