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Post by MoonBeemer on Jan 6, 2009 21:19:15 GMT -5
Hey all! Hope everyone had a wonderful holiday and warm welcomes to the returning and new members joining us!
Rose & IBM, what great-great questions to kick off another year of essing! ;D Without further ado...
1. Why do you think David really wants to throw a wedding for Maddie?
He’s testing her and forcing her hand by betting on Maddie’s history of reacting when she feels others are taking control of her life and making her feel cornered/rushed.
2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter, like David guessed?
As others have said, she is ashamed of herself. Also, to admit it to her parents makes it more legitimate somehow – something her marriage is not.
3. There is much argument on if Maddie lied about David not being the father of her baby, so in regards to her speech in the hospital, where she tells David she wishes with all her heart the baby inside her was his, does it make you believe she didn't lie then to David and really believes the baby is Sam's? While this is her most conclusive declaration, I could still see it going either way. I do believe she is sincere in her stated wish. To me, the most significant thing about the scene is Maddie pushing aside her pride to (for once) 1) apologize and 2) confess & concede to David the depth of her love for him – to me, that’s every bit as major (if not more so) a Moonlighting milestone as the final scene of IACM.
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Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 21:23:38 GMT -5
I think that's a bit of a self-pitying assessment of how his relationship with Maddie worked out. The four months she was gone were absolute torture for David, but he thought he'd gotten to a point of such preparedness and maturity, that Maddie wouldn't be able to turn him down once she got back. But now here he is, getting drunk with Maddie's husband. That can't be what he counted on, making speeches to disgruntled fathers about the depth of his feelings and taking lamaze classes so he'd be prepared for Maddie's pregnancy. Some plan. Welcome to the fray, gorky! Glad to see you here...and totally agree with the above. Well-said!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:25:20 GMT -5
You know, in a way, Terri is David's Walter. I'm sure I'm not the first person to make that observation, but I'll say it anyway. There are definite parallels you could draw there. Whoa, gorky ! IMO, Terri is MUCH more important to David than Walter is to Maddie. Dave NEEDS her. She's his friend, the one who listens to him, comforts him when he's overwhelmed with loneliness... Walter is just a fallback choice. Because she has to Avoid... All IMO, of course!
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Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 6, 2009 21:29:54 GMT -5
It just astounds me that after all the hurt that David's experienced, he put all that anger and hurt, and LOVE into his scheme - if he didn't care anymore he just would have walked away. manitoba, sis! Finally someone who cares for Dave!! Agree 3000% !! Right on sista! I just think, hey, without Dave's eternal adoration of Maddie, the ship would have been sunk!
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 21:31:07 GMT -5
This is one of those episodes that I love and hate equally! As I said before, this whole show is about Avoiding true feelings and playing cover up, from both David and Maddie.
I remember the first time I watched this I was so disappointed in the way David was behaving. Until the scene at Terri’s where for the first time since Maddie returned you really see in his face and eyes that what Maddie has done has broken him. (great job BW!)[/u] I also remember hating Maddie for what she did and will be truthful in saying that it really irritated the daylights out of me for a very long time!!! (this is really a TV show, right?!) But then I began to understand Maddie a little more and understood somewhat why she did some of the things she did throughout the course of their relationship.
HOWEVER, and as you can see it is a BIG HOWEVER, I still do not believe that Maddie marrying Walter was true to her character in the show. And that folks, I know, is a whole other can of worms!!
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Post by MoonBeemer on Jan 6, 2009 21:31:16 GMT -5
4 . Why do you think Walter married Maddie? For one he just met her and he knew of all her baggage , such as David and the baby. When it all blows up at the end , do you feel bad for him or feel like he should have known this would happen? Why did Walter marry Maddie – because he’s not blind! Seriously, Walter himself admitted something was lacking in his life and happens to stumble across a beautiful, bright, well-to-do, family-minded, seemingly understanding woman who is also struggling for fulfillment (in a different manner). But really, he knew the woman was caught up with David and vice versa – what did he expect??? 5. What is David going to prove by throwing Maddie a wedding? As a pseudo goodwill gesture/defense mechanism. 6. About David's behavior at the church: is he trying to make Maddie jealous?Yes and no. Terri is there for a reason – to support him in what is likely to be a defining moment in his life (based on if Maddie goes through with the wedding or not – notice how, despite his sickened state, intently he was leaning forward during the ceremony). There is a certain legitimacy to Terri & David’s relationship just as there is in that of Maddie & Walter. And, of course, the labor onset was also circumstantial. The fact he could use both to further stoke Maddie's self-provokedness in the process is just icing on the (almost) wedding cake (though his primary concern was Terri & baby at the moment). 7. What do you believe David's perception of Walter is? Does his perception remain the same or does it change in the course of the episode? If so, when? My guess is that David sees Walter as a “nice enough” guy that’s both a nemesis and MH commiserator at the same time. David comes to realize Walter’s a man of depth and not just some lothario taking advantage of a vulnerable woman. Interestingly, Davied throws the gauntlet down for Maddie and not Walter, which I comes from his altered perception of what he himself can and can not accept in regards to his relationship with Ms. Hayes. Extra: David mentions the movie Play Misty For Me to Walter during their first talk in the office, Any thoughts on this movie in regards to the show/episode?I’m not ultra familiar with the flick, other than the fatal attraction plot David snidely referenced – but suppose it could reflect his own relationship with Maddie in the sense that each could be very stubborn to accept the reality of their situation and neither really wanted to be without the other.
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Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 21:31:33 GMT -5
Re the Terri/Walter connection:
I agree, IBM, that David and Terri's relationship goes deeper than Maddie and Walter's (they've known each other longer, for one thing), but nonetheless, I think we are definitely supposed to draw a parallel between Terri and Walter as potential other choices for D & M.
And by the way, can I just say...I love the idea of T & W getting together--it feels like poetic justice! (I know, I know, I am a shameless romantic. There. I've admitted it. ;D)
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:32:02 GMT -5
Extra: David mentions the movie Play Misty For Me to Walter during their first talk in the office, Any thoughts on this movie in regards to the show/episode? I think it was David's way of saving face with Walter. The movie is about a radio DJ and an obsessed fan. David was trying to make it seem like what he and Maddie had together was very one-sided, all Maddie's. Anybody think that it was a reference to Maddie's infatuation with Paul the DJ in TNMYH? David loved Maddie then and she was "with" someone else...... bees! Finally I get to understand what the reference to that movie was about!! Thanks!!! About TNMYH: you know, it just may be! Super bees !!
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 21:32:43 GMT -5
Thanks, jpen! This is pretty fun, isn't it? Hee...maybe I was a tad bit hasty there, eh? I completely agree that Terri was more important to David than Walter was to Maddie. But I do think that Terri and Walter served similar purposes in the story: they allowed David and Maddie to stall. To avoid confronting their feelings. Although, in the end, Walter calls Maddie out on her behavior, and Terri does the same for David. I'm really venturing off-topic here, but in "A Womb With a View", Jerome says something along the lines of "Maddie is afraid she loves David more than he loves her, and David's afraid of the same thing." I think that you can trace all of their emotional missteps to that simple statement.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 21:33:29 GMT -5
I think that's a bit of a self-pitying assessment of how his relationship with Maddie worked out. The four months she was gone were absolute torture for David, but he thought he'd gotten to a point of such preparedness and maturity, that Maddie wouldn't be able to turn him down once she got back. But now here he is, getting drunk with Maddie's husband. That can't be what he counted on, making speeches to disgruntled fathers about the depth of his feelings and taking lamaze classes so he'd be prepared for Maddie's pregnancy. Some plan. gorky, exactly what I thought!! He did all of that preparing, planning and promising to Mr. Hayes......for nothing!!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:35:18 GMT -5
manitoba, sis! Finally someone who cares for Dave!! Agree 3000% !! Right on sista! I just think, hey, without Dave's eternal adoration of Maddie, the ship would have been sunk! By golly YOU'RE RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!! GIMME A HIGH FIVE!!
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Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 21:35:21 GMT -5
4 . 6. About David's behavior at the church: is he trying to make Maddie jealous?
Yes and no. Terri is there for a reason – to support him in what is likely to be a defining moment in his life (based on if Maddie goes through with the wedding or not – notice how, despite his sickened state, intently he was leaning forward during the ceremony).
Ooh--love this point! I had noticed it, but hadn't thought of that angle--great!
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Post by lin212 on Jan 6, 2009 21:40:14 GMT -5
3. The hospital scene-
I believe that in this scene, Maddie is absolutely honest and sincere when she states that she wishes this were David's baby, which means that she believes that Sam is the father. I agree, jpen, that she is laying it all on the line, opening her heart and soul to this man whom she loves. On the other hand, I also believe that she is lying when she tells David that she is absolutely sure that he is NOT the father in TRACKS and EEK. I think that this inconsistency had nothing to do with Maddie and everything to do with the writers who couldn't decide which way to go.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Jan 6, 2009 21:41:26 GMT -5
Golly I hate coming in this late to the party, because I don't know what else to add. You folks have nailed just about everything.
I have popped the DVD in and am trying to get caught up.
More to follow.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:43:50 GMT -5
Re the Terri/Walter connection: I agree, IBM, that David and Terri's relationship goes deeper than Maddie and Walter's (they've known each other longer, for one thing), but nonetheless, I think we are definitely supposed to draw a parallel between Terri and Walter as potential other choices for D & M. And by the way, can I just say...I love the idea of T & W getting together--it feels like poetic justice! (I know, I know, I am a shameless romantic. There. I've admitted it. ;D) Right, jpen ! I mean, David and Terri went to Lamaze class together...It's such an intimate experience! Ah, Romance... What a dull World without it!! I am, too. Well, maybe we're not the only incurable romantics... T & W ended up together in FanFiction, after all!
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