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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 23:41:16 GMT -5
I'm VERY proud of my essedness! I'm having such a great time with you!! You know, here in Italy ML has never achieved the popularity it deserves! I feel like a fish out of water down here... Thank goodness we have this board!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 18, 2008 23:53:41 GMT -5
Italiablue--- The date of conception has been discussed many times!! We all know it is David's baby. Not sure if the writers just wanted to torcher us some more or if they really intended for the baby to be Sam's until they got all of the hate mail after the episode aired!!! Sad thing is Maddie wanted it to be David's and they never were told that it was.........but they told us!!! Yes I know they told us in "A Womb With A View"... I know all of that, of course... Anyway the script of the episode we're discussing tonight doesn't make much sense about this matter... There are... scientific contradictions... Hell now I do sound like a dweeb! If they wanted to keep the suspence... Fine with me! Anyway, I think the writers should have never written the line "I'm a little under five months...". You see what they've done? They've given me and other crazy, broody people like me enough material to hammer our brains with!!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 18, 2008 23:59:37 GMT -5
I know...they wanted to torcher us on purpose!!!
I think they just messed up with the timeframe.......they never thought we would do the math, I guess!! Or maybe they knew we would figure it out and it was a way to boost ratings and make us keep watching.
They for sure did not think that we would be here talking about it (cussing about, really!) 20 years later!!!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 19, 2008 0:01:52 GMT -5
Well, thanks eveyone for tonight. Feel free to carry on and I will check in tomorrow in the AM.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 0:08:58 GMT -5
Question 6 I think the lyrics of that song are the verbal exposition of David's feelings right at the end of this episode, when he starts grinning and then leaves the office... I noticed, however, a shy smile on Maddie's face when she tells David she got married... So I think we're definitely following the tear tracks of BOTH David and Maddie... Not to mention OURS! What a tragedy... Come on, cheer up! We know how Season 4 ended, right? ;D
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 0:21:54 GMT -5
They for sure did not think that we would be here talking about it (cussing about, really!) 20 years later!!! They didn't for sure! That's the beauty of these conversations! They allow people who didn't have the chance to talk about ML back in the 80s (who maybe were not born yet ) to do so now!! And with people (YOU, dear fellow fans!) who have an extensive knowledge of the show! ML will live forever, in this way... ;D ;D ;D I LOVE IT!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 0:27:59 GMT -5
OMG, they're all gone to sleep!! It's dawning over here, instead... Thanks everybody for the TERRIFIC exchange of opinions! Hope to do it again soon! ;D And to all... a good night!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 0:57:49 GMT -5
Re: Maddie's harshness when she tells David about the baby-- Good question, manitoba. I was thinking the same thing--there could be so many shades to those words: "It isn't yours." I don't know if she says it that way to push David further away--maybe it'll be easier if he's angry at her, or if he thinks she doesn't care... Of course, then she spends the next minute badgering him: "Can't you find anything nice to say?" This, to me, was possibly the worst part of the writing of this episode--it makes her look like such a self-centered b*tch! I would think that the last thing she would want would be to prolong their conversation. I think Maddie tells David that the baby's not his in such a cruel way in order to push him further away from her... I think Cybill meant to do it...It's not a casual choice of tone... IMHO. About the "Can't you find anything nice to say?" line... Well, this is a VERY, VERY selfish thing to say. I hate that line, too!!
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 19, 2008 10:22:50 GMT -5
It seems most of us are not real happy with the way Maddie delivered her news to David, but the only thing I can say about that is that it was written that way. It is no secret that Cybill disagreed with the idea of Maddie marrying Walter. Sometimes I think they did this in order to get back to Maddie's original "iciness". They knew ratings were slipping with her being on maternity leave all of S4 and the writers strike was just around the corner. But, for some reason they did not pay attention to the way Maddie's character had grown and changed. I will always believe that they could have fixed this mess at this point.....and basically they tried to when they sent Walter away with the breaking of the 4th wall......The end of FWMW left you feeling that way........ But then the strikes and GGC left, just a multitude of things, including the decisions they made in WWAV and BAYAAHP. My coping mechanism is to accept what it is for what it is.....still a terrific show that has not been matched in 22 years! .....some might say I am biased...... Carry on if you wish.
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Post by diane on Nov 19, 2008 11:13:00 GMT -5
Excuse me for being so anal...or maybe so "Maddie-like", but I edited the title of the thread....the episode and song title are both "Tracks of My Tears".
Great discussion......I have printed it all out to ponder, and am currently working on my essay entitled "Husband David is to Maddie as Maddie is to Real David"........hopefully I can get it posted tonight.
The one thing I have a pet peeve about is failing to separate the characters from the people who played them. There was lots of drama and innuendo that circled Moonlighting like vultures, but the bottom line is we are analyzing and discussing the work itself. Sure, stuff happens, but there has to be a reason that this series has stood the test of time and remained bright and fresh. And many of the things discussed here are very pertinent. In my mind it is too easy to brush things off by using the personal, rather than digging into the work itself.
Please don't misinterpret this......it's my opinion, and by no means should it affect the discussion. My call out is just that Maddie and David, and Cybill and Bruce are two totally separate pairs of people.....one pair fictional, and one pair very real, and should be considered as such.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 15:52:46 GMT -5
Excuse me for being so anal...or maybe so "Maddie-like", but I edited the title of the thread....the episode and song title are both "Tracks of My Tears". Hello Diane! Sorry about that... I guess yesterday night we were all too perky and excited about rewatching together an episode of our favorite show to spot that missing "s"... BTW, Beesnbears did a great job! ;D Her questions were intriguing and thought-provoking! As a matter of fact, you can see the results: we had a clever and lively conversation.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 19, 2008 15:56:07 GMT -5
Great discussion......I have printed it all out to ponder, and am currently working on my essay entitled "Husband David is to Maddie as Maddie is to Real David"........hopefully I can get it posted tonight. I'm looking forward to it!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 20, 2008 0:15:57 GMT -5
Hey all you awesome ML fans ! I just got to find some time to write a little about this episode but as always i jump in when it's all been said very well by you all . This episode is not a top 10 of mine. It's a pretty good episode untill the end! UGH! 1. Why would Maddie dream that she was married and had a family with a man like him? *Ahh Maddies dream. It really is a funny dream. Pat Boone was great too. So funny! I do enjoy it. Maddie dreams of David being like him cause i think Maddie has dated men like Pat Boone LOL Well lets think back to her date with that Dr in the pilot BORING ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ LOL I think Maddie thinks the ideal man was supposed to be some hard working, non fun guy ,until she met David. Even Sam was kinda like a Pat Boone type but not that drastic of course LOL Obviously Maddies priorities of Men and Marriage change during her dream cause all of a sudden shes dreaming of the badboy type David and wanting him so badly. This has Maddie walking on the wild side, probably something she never did till David. She definitely is scared of this. 2. In the second dream…where her “husband” drinks the Pepto-Bismol---yuck…Maddie has one of many revelations in this episode when she says, “You’re not the same man I married and I’m not sure I like the change.” What does this mean? *I think Maddie realizes David can't be the ideal man type, he tried to be but fails in Maddies eyes obviously cause shes not happy in the dream. 3. Besides mimicking the movie, what do you think about the significance of David busting through glass doors coming after Maddie and then disappearing in her dream? (Man, was that hot or what?!) * OMG this dream should have been reality i tell ya ! It definitely shows the strong physical passion Maddie has for the real David. Like their IACM scene it's very passionate and forceful in a way , makes you think the month they were together was alot like this huh? LOL Ok mind get out of the guttter LOL I so wish we could of had more M/D love scenes Darn it! 4. What do you think is the real reason Maddie marries Walter? *Ok besides the writers making her marry Walter LOL um shes obviously very scared still, when she leaves her parents house you have hope, she looks happy and you think shes on her way home to David to be with him but then shes stuck on this train and her mind just wanders and she starts dreaming and then she meets this guy and starts to talk to him and before you know it Maddie aint so happy anymore. She tells Walter that David isnt the father. Do she really believe shes saving David from a life with her and someone elses child? I'm not sure. Is it her crazy hormones working against David LOL Not sure either. But it definitely changed Maddies beliefs and character alittle bit dont ya think by doing what she did so spontaneously? While in previous episodes we observed growth in David’s character, how many emotions did David experience from the time Maddie walks in the office to the time he leaves at the end? * The end scene when Maddie and David first see each other again is just like 4th of July to me. The fireworks in their eyes and faces ,it was magical really! They both looked so happy and of course the tv viewer is happy and then of course it doesnt last, cause like David we got suck punched along with him. He really was so sweet to her and of course the pregnancy thing didnt bother him from trying to seduce her in the office before she dropped her big bomb shell huh She sure seemed to enjoy it and then she stopped and said what she said. I think thr actors portrayed the scne so well. The fighting and hardsh words and everything was like any fight they have had but yes maddie really was so down right mean in her telling David what she did and that the baby also wasnt his. I must confess i can watch this scene up till the part where Maddie says Shes married. i have to take a break it seems and turn it off there still to this day and wait a few minutes before resuming the rest of this episode ,i do that to alot with a few scenes in the An**e storyline too LOL OK you can call me crazy i dont mind. Well that's my 2cent on this episode. Hope you understood my points
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 20, 2008 10:18:59 GMT -5
Maddie dreams of David being like him cause i think Maddie has dated men like Pat Boone LOL Well lets think back to her date with that Dr in the pilot BORING ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ LOL I think Maddie thinks the ideal man was supposed to be some hard working, non fun guy ,until she met David. Even Sam was kinda like a Pat Boone type but not that drastic of course rose
I wondered if anyone would recall her other dates and also compare Pat Boone to Sam!!
She tells Walter that David isn't the father. Does she really believe shes saving David from a life with her and someone elses child? rose
I have often thought that was part of her decision making, but when she awakes from that last dream on the train she admits that she has been running away from everything like she did at home with her parents---"letting everyone make decisions for her"..... at this point you get the feeling that she has it all figured out, tells Walter she lied about being married to David, etc.. This was that last revelation I thought she had, but then backpedals once again and throws a roadblock in front of David with the initials of WB!!
Thanks for your comments, rose!!
Excuse me for being so anal...or maybe so "Maddie-like", but I edited the title of the thread....the episode and song title are both "Tracks of My Tears". diane
oopsies.....I proofread a billion times, sorry! Don't mind that you made the change....I would have done the same thing.
My call out is just that Maddie and David, and Cybill and Bruce are two totally separate pairs of people.....one pair fictional, and one pair very real diane
WHAT?!?!? Maddie and David are not real??? My world is shattered!! ;D JK!!
But seriously, I hope my questions or comments did not indicate or promote such a thing. I was not trying to put blame on anyone for what happened to the show or in this episode.....just trying to stimulate the conversation!!!!
...am currently working on my essay entitled "Husband David is to Maddie as Maddie is to Real David"........hopefully I can get it posted tonight. diane
Looking forward to reading it diane!!...and I won't take points off for turning in your homework late!!HA!
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Post by diane on Nov 20, 2008 13:55:43 GMT -5
Bees, Your questions were absolutely fabulous! I just got the idea while reading through the thread, that some people try and read more personal things into the show than just a show....and it takes away from the whole thing, in my opinion........but, as I said, it's a pet peeve of mine, and doesn't have to affect others. I DO have one big question.....which has always been my big question with this episode....and I am amazed it hasn't come up......... Am I the only one who thinks Maddie was flat out lying when she told David it was not his baby??? Look at the way she stutters.....mumbles.....avoids his eyes.......I believe with my whole heart that she was telling a big old whopper with cheese........ Commence discussion? ?
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