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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 19:09:24 GMT -5
OK, here we go with round two…This is a fun episode that gets Maddie and David out of the office to an exotic “locale,” with the added bonus of David in a white tux! Maddie confronts the swindling Sawyer, and has to decide how badly she wants her old life back. We also get some insight into our dynamic duo as they take one tiny step forward (an attempted kiss!) in their relationship, followed, of course, by two steps—make that one long flight—back. Here are a few questions to get us started, but please feel free to add your own along the way… 1. There are several “role reversal” scenes in this episode, where David acts as the rational, analytic counselor (“d’you mind if I just talk some sense into you?!”) and Maddie, driven by emotion, acts impulsively. How do these scenes enhance our understanding of their characters? What do you think they reveal about David and Maddie’s priorities at this point in the show? 2. When they are arguing in the office, David sarcastically says to Maddie, "Things are tough all over, kid." Maddie shoots back, "Not ALL over, kid" and slams out the door; later, in the casino restaurant, she says sadly, "Things are tough all over." Are David and Maddie talking about the same "things" here? 3. What do you think is/are David's motivation(s) in the poker game, especially when he urges Maddie to fold? 4. What exactly makes Maddie so angry when she uncovers that fifth card? And what makes her so sad in the final scene, when she confesses to Agnes, "Just when I think that maybe, just maybe, I can show him a little piece of my heart...He knocks [me] down and steps on [my] aorta"? And finally... 5. This is kind of a rhetorical question, but--what the HECK is going on with those elephantine polka dots on Maddie's evening dress?!  |
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Post by lin212 on Oct 28, 2008 19:45:37 GMT -5
Great questions, jpen, real thought-provokers.
1. Maddie's impulsiveness (spontaneity) in taking off for Buenos Aires is very interesting, but almost in hindsight. I am not sure that we have yet categorized Maddie as the thinker that she becomes later in the series. So, it doesn't really seem out of character at this point. We see that Maddie still mourns the loss of her old life and is willing to go to extraordinary measures to try and get it back. She actually is being quite unreasonable, thinking that Sawyer would ever give her money back. As for David, for me this is an early example of his desire to protect Maddie. His following her to Buenos Aires speaks volumes about his growing feelings for her. I also believe that he is hurt that Maddie wants to go back to her old life, that she could walk away from him so easily.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 28, 2008 20:04:26 GMT -5
I'll have to come back to Question 2 - needs more thought. As for Q. 3, I really believe David in this scene. His concern seems genuine as does his fear that she will lose everything, including her dignity. He is trying to protect her from disaster. I never got the feeling that he deliberately manipulated the situation to keep her from winning.
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Post by callmeditzy on Oct 28, 2008 20:14:20 GMT -5
Wow! Great questions, Jen! I'll dive right in...
1. Interesting observation about the role reversals. I've honestly never thought about this episode in those terms, but you're right about David's rationality and Maddie's impulsivity. I think at the point of this episode, Maddie has accepted her new life, but not necessarily consciously. I think she's gotten into the swing of things as far as being a detective and keeping the business going, but has been so busy with those things that she hasn't had time to think about her old life or wish for it back. It's not until she's reminded of Ron Sawyer that she's made aware of it again: "Oh yeah. I used to be rich. I'm not really a detective. I'm supposed to be living a different life".
On the other hand, while Maddie has merely accepter her new life, David is relishing in it. In many ways, he's more self-aware than Maddie, and knows how much he enjoys having her in his life. He's aware that he has feelings for her (if his jealousy over Paul McCain wasn't enough of a clue, his tearing-apart of the restroom after Maddie and Richie hit it off sure was!) and that keeping her at the agency is his only real way to be around her at this point.
2. Hmm...I've never thought about this. Rewatching the fight, I can see that David's feeling uncomfortable during Maddie's rant. It makes sense, though, because she's mostly yelling "I hate this" and "I hate that" about her current life. And, although she's focusing mainly on the financial situation she's in, I can see that David might be feeling a little surprised and hurt to hear her declaring her hatred of her life so vehemently, considering so much of that life involves him now. He might have been feeling, up until then, that maybe she was settling into her new life and seemed happy enough and that maybe she'd be in his life for a good while, but hearing her rant about hating her life kind of took that away from him. Maybe his sarcastic "things are tough all over, kid" was kind of defensive in nature, as if to say "You know, you really don't have it so bad here, with me" or maybe "You think you've got it bad? Well, life with you ain't no picnic either". I don't know...just random thoughts...
As for Maddie saying it again, to herself, at the casino restaurant, I've always loved that moment. It's so meaningful, to me, that at such a moment in her life, when she's feeling so deflated and disillusioned and humiliated, she's thinking of David. What brilliant writing to make that point in such an understated, subtle way! But I do think Maddie's talking about different "things". In the earlier fight, it seems to me that the "things" they're referring to is the current state of Maddie's life (textually) and their life together (subtextually). But in this scene, it seems to me like she's realizing that David was right to imply that she didn't have it so bad - because now she's got it worse. Not only is she as broke as she was when she woke up that morning, but now she's broke and humiliated and forced to face the knowledge that she's never going to get her stolen money back.
3. I love this question! David playing in the poker game for Maddie is such a beautiful illustration of how much he cares for her. When he asks her "That's what you really want, isn't it?", he realizes that if she gets her money back, she's going to leave the agency, and him. And he really, really doesn't want that to happen. But he helps her anyway, because he wants her to be happy, even if it means he loses her forever. Sigh... So I think he's motivated by a desire to see Maddie happy, but also a desire to defend her honor and dignity against someone who has wronged her. Oh, how I love the way he barks "Shut up, Reptile" at Sawyer after trying to ignore him and hold back his hatred for the man.
When he encourages her to fold, I think he's motivated by two things. One, I believe he's sincere in thinking Maddie could lose everything. And, apart from his own selfish reasons for wanting her to stay in LA and keep the agency going, I think he knows how good her "new life" has been for her, in the ways that really matter. When he says "What matters is you...and your business...and the people who care about you", I think he truly means it. But secondly, he wants her to fold because he knows that means she'll stay in her house in LA and stay with her agency and stay with him. What's wonderful is that what he wants for himself and what he wants for her are the same thing! Being together enriches both of their lives. Sigh again...
4. This I really don't understand. Clearly, Maddie realizes that she would have won the game, but did she really think David encouraged her to fold knowing that she would have won? I mean, she doesn't know anything about poker, but even if she had she would have realized that David only had a pair of queens, while Sawyer had the possibility of three tens. David was right on the money when he said it could go either way. Sawyer only had the possibility of two hands: a pair of tens (which would have lost) and three tens (which would have won). I guess I can see why Maddie would be mad at that moment, considering she just realized she could have won all of her money back, but I don't understand why she held on to her anger days later. Once she calmed down from the initial realization and the frustration and regret she undoubtedly felt, she should have realized that David had no way of knowing which way Sawyer's hand was going to go. And the way she said he "knock[ed] [her] down and stepp[ed] on [her] aorta" implies that he did something deliberate to hurt her. I just don't get it.
5. Yikes! More importantly, what's with the hideously drab shoes she wore with that bubble dress? The dress is all sparkly and sequinny and fancy and her shoes are dull and matte and just...taupe or something. They do not fit at all.
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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 20:22:41 GMT -5
lin, that's a great point about not categorizing Maddie too early on (I don't think she describes herself as a "thinker" until "Trip to the Moon")--I hadn't thought of that. And certainly, she does act impulsively at other times, too. I think it just hit me more forcefully in this episode because of David's counseling--he really is right on, especially in their argument in the office and in his "just fold" speech.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 28, 2008 20:23:29 GMT -5
Well, those are so really great questions, jpen!! You have me thinkin', that's for sure!
In a nutshell, what the whole episode is about, imo, is what makes someone happy in their life. Does a lot money really make you happy? Or is it satisfying relationships, a rewarding job, and doing your own part to make the world a better place?
I think the question is asked when Maddie sees the old friend on the window ledge about to jump and she asks him, "Were you really happy with all of that money?" She has about realized at this point that her money is indeed gone and the only thing to keep her boat afloat now is the detective agency.
But, once she learns where Sawyer is she starts thinking again that if only she had her money back she would have her old life back as well. "What could be better, me gone and out of your hair" she says to David.....or something like that.
This is where the role reversals show David trying to think rationally, but also conflicted. He wants Maddie to be happy, but if that means she wants her money back so she can leave.....well, he is not for that!! Maddie on the other hand is driven by the fact that there is this chance that she could live like she used to.....a maid, a cook, travel, not worry about the mortgage , etc.. David likes to live the high life too. We are led to believe throughout the show that he lives beyond his means financially.
It is very telling later the next morning when David is talking to Agnes. He is really hurt that she took off for get her money back and did not ask him to come along. Like she gave no thought at all about leaving the agency. We see he really loves her and reconfirms his feelings from "Next Murder..." and even "Brother, Can...." He even thought he had her convinced that the agency was a good thing in "Lady With.....", but she gets the scent of Sawyers trail and off she goes!!
As far as the poker game and what Maddie was really upset about, I have always been a little confused! I don't think that David would intentionally blow a game with a lot of money.....Maddie's money....at stake. He did not want her to lose everything else she had left. But, I think she felt David folded because he did not want her to leave. Since day one he has been tricking her at every corner to keep her at Blue Moon!! What's a lady to think?!?
LOL!! She looks great in the dress, though......big 'ol dots and all!!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 28, 2008 20:32:53 GMT -5
"What's wonderful is that what he wants for himself and what he wants for her are the same thing! Being together enriches both of their lives."
EXACTLY!!
But, it really is a good thing that Maddie did not realize this too soon or we would not have had all the other great great episodes!
Very well put, Ditz!!
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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 20:50:39 GMT -5
In the poker scene, I think David is acting out of mostly pure intentions--he really means what he's saying, especially when he says "Your future and your fortune aren't here, they're in LA, with the people who care about you;" there's only a tiny bit of selfishness in the mix there, IMO. And I think Maddie realizes his sincerity: the look she gives him, and the tender kiss on the cheek...
Now, her burst of anger when she uncovers the card is not too surprising--of course she'd be frustrated that she came so close to $200,000, and I think she's also reacting to the fact that she let David influence her decision (plus it's a funny way to end the scene). But I agree with ditzy that, given a little time to reflect, her anger would have dissipated and she would have acknowledged (on some level) how much David must care about her.
Which brings us to the "aorta" comment--it just doesn't seem like a reaction that makes sense. Maddie does make a reference to David "running for [their] plane" which makes me wonder if he did something after the poker game to upset her.
Does anyone out there have a copy of the script? I wonder whether some lines had been cut that might explain Maddie's teariness a bit better.
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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 20:55:36 GMT -5
"It is very telling later the next morning when David is talking to Agnes. He is really hurt that she took off for get her money back and did not ask him to come along. Like she gave no thought at all about leaving the agency."
Thanks for bringing this up, bees. I love this scene--the way his voice lowers...he sounds so forlorn. Meanwhile, Maddie's dreaming of victory on the plane--quite a contrast!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 28, 2008 21:27:21 GMT -5
"makes me wonder if he did something after the poker game to upset her"............the mind reels!!! This could be a whole new thread!!  |
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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 21:38:41 GMT -5
I know...it's complete speculation...but the way she says the line, it almost sounds like she put herself out there and he rejected her--nah, can't picture it! |
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 28, 2008 21:42:28 GMT -5
No one has said anything about the "attempted kiss"! Was it a moment where David was ready to take the next step? Or was he wrapped up in the excitement of the night and temporarily lost his head?!?!
My opinion has always been he was ready to put his cards out there while Maddie was happy....the time seemed right to him. Guess he learned a little more about Ms. Hayes, didn't he?!?
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 28, 2008 21:46:24 GMT -5
Never thought of him rejecting her.......... a script might help.
It is hard to picture her putting the moves on him at this point......
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Post by jpen on Oct 28, 2008 22:16:18 GMT -5
Ah yes, the almost-smooch. I agree, bees--I think David just thought it was an opportune moment. They've had such a great night (in fact, the gambling scenes are some of the only ones in the whole series where we see such unfettered enjoyment between them), he figures he'll take the risk. And I love the way she just gently pushes him away, and he turns it into a kiss on her palm (which is kinda hot, too! . And as for the speculation, I can't see her "making a move" either. It's just odd, the way she delivers that line, and the tears in her eyes... |
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Post by funkycat on Oct 29, 2008 4:08:21 GMT -5
These are really great points that everyone has raised and very thought-provoking. I would just like to add my 2 cents worth.
Firstly, I think that David is being almost completely altruistic when he is encouraging Maddie to fold. I also believe that David's comment from the pilot "You need me to live, lady!" hasn't quite penetrated Maddie's honey blonde noggin and she resists this notion. She is IMHO looking at her old life through rose-coloured glasses. After all, how many real friends did she have from then? We certainly never see them!!!
Secondly, even though this is for the most part a great episode, further advancing character development, I feel that the endings for these earlier eps. suffer from what I call "Love Boat writing" that is, formulaic, predictable and corny. Luckily there is enough what we might call "West Wing writing" happening for the bulk of the ep.! Therefore the ending is just, again IMHO a little lame, although I do like Maddie's last line!
Thirdly, what can I say about the dress. I know it was the 80's but this looks like a robe. (Watch how Maddie does it up). We're jolly lucky there wasn't a wardrobe malfunction. Also, seeing as no-one has mentioned it yet - what is with Maddie's hair when she is in the dress- is it a piece or what?
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