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Post by callmeditzy on Nov 11, 2008 23:02:58 GMT -5
Oh, and back to Jim Bower. There is nothing creepier than the look on his face when he walked through the mourners at his house. "Never say never." Eek!
He's definitely killed a dozen or more people since then.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2008 23:15:27 GMT -5
I'm so excited....I finally figured out how to highlight a quote!! "Yes, you're right about their tempers...the irony of this ep is that they are BOTH incredibly passionate people--Maddie just tries to tamp hers down because (I think) she's scared of being out of control." You're so right, Jen, and I never thought of it that way. The difference lies in what they're passionate about. Maddie's passion seems to flare up when her apple cart's being disturbed. She believes there's a certain order to things, a way that things should be and a way that people should behave, and that if she just follows those guidelines, everything in her life will fall into place. But when life throws a curveball at her (like a giant one named David), she feels like the balance of the universe is out of whack and everything's just wrong wrong wrong and she feels out of control and freaks the hell out.
David, on the other hand, is passionate about life and enjoying it. Ironically, that includes all of the curveballs that might be thrown at him along the way. He embraces the unpredictability of life, while Maddie spends all of her energy trying to guard against unpredictability. [/blockquote] EXACTLY. So how do we define PASSION!!! “by the time you wade through all that junk anyone or anything that is worth waiting around for is on to something else anyway”…. “the best parts of life are things you don’t have to think through” “Theres nothing wrong with weighing the pros and cons”…..Maddie “Well theres nothing great about it either”….David And while Maddie is trying to figure all of this out with her brain David tells her “You really are a hell of a lot of work Madolyn Hayes” And she replies with “What does that mean?”…Maddie will ask this question throughout the entire life of the show. As well as the statement “I don’t know” Maddie connects spontaneous with passion when talking to Jim and Carla(I've gone blank...is that her name!!) at the funeral. I can't remember exactly what she says, but it is one revelation for her. The other is in the elevator the next morning.....I love the elevator....so many things happen between those two when they are in it!!.....Maddie actually admits she may have been wrong about “McGuillacudys wedding, about spontaneity, about a lot of things” WOW!! She realizes that maybe, just maybe she has been avoiding living her life to the fullest....... A little goes a long way……..and another revelation for Maddie….walk barefoot once in a while………. I am so "essed"........
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2008 23:31:44 GMT -5
He's definitely killed a dozen or more people since then. Oh my gosh...LMAO! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2008 23:33:23 GMT -5
Bower is a freak alright!! ;D
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2008 23:40:39 GMT -5
This was so FUN...what a great discussion!! (And thanks for the thought-provoking questions, 'ditzy!)
I love reveling in our communal essed-ness! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 11, 2008 23:42:48 GMT -5
Tons of fun!! And to all a good night!!!
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Post by manitobadesigner on Nov 12, 2008 14:23:32 GMT -5
Yes, thanks all, I really enjoyed my first discussion with you guys! ;D
J
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Post by funkycat on Nov 13, 2008 4:37:36 GMT -5
Having read what everyone else has said (and BTW Beez, Melissa's sister is called Claire) Yet again I find myself engrossed in everyone's posts. Some really great thoughts about passion and spontaneity!
One thing that has always bugged me about this episode is the music, specifically "Dedicated to the One I Love". The first time I watched this ep. (many moons ago!) I wasn't quite sure whether the music was playing in Bower's house or whether it was part of the soundtrack, like chase music etc. If it was playing in his house then Claire is as freaky as him to think of setting up the music. On the other hand, if it is part of the soundtrack then it's an interesting choice of music to play, perhaps demonstrating Bower's state of mind. I would be interested to hear what others think.
BTW, I love when David and Maddie are in the car on the way to the cabin in the woods and she says, apropos his references to Gretel et al, "You really did read during your vacation, didn't you". I defy anyone to watch her face and not enjoy the look on it.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 13, 2008 15:36:04 GMT -5
There is probably nobody out there that does this, or is doing this.....but I have still been thinking about this episode and our recent discussion!! I went back to the original discussion on this because we had talked about the fantasy kisses at the end.
Queensgirl on Jan 21, 2006: "There is no doubt now that their feelings are well and truly serious, instead of just hinted at like before.
What makes this even more significant is that it happens on the heels of their little truce from the terrible argument before. The last time they met in that exact place was to have a brutal fight. So it's a visual reversal of the nasty mood of before......"
"Also, it's a symbol of the fact that the two are still not able to say what ought to be obvious. For some reason, they just can't. Afraid to argue again and have it all fall apart? Afraid to be rejected? Get fired or have to leave? So they picture it.
And they are both thinking about the same thing. For once, they're not on different pages!"
Anyway, I am sure you have read this already, but I thought it was worth re-inserting here!
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Post by jpen on Nov 13, 2008 16:23:11 GMT -5
BTW, I love when David and Maddie are in the car on the way to the cabin in the woods and she says, apropos his references to Gretel et al, "You really did read during your vacation, didn't you". I defy anyone to watch her face and not enjoy the look on it. funkycat, I totally agree...a great light moment between them. I also love this: M: That's one of the things I enjoy most about you. D: What's that? M: Your relentless unpleasantness. Her delivery of that line cracks me up every time! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 13, 2008 18:41:52 GMT -5
funky, that is really funny. Cybill really looked like she enjoyed saying that line! She was really good with one liners. Ok, one more quote and then I will let this go!! This is from Moonlighting on the Web website concerning the kisses at the end: "The fact that they each want to, and that they each elect not to do so, serves as a final, symbolic commentary on the question they've been debating. "
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Post by rose35 on Nov 13, 2008 23:44:55 GMT -5
Hey all! Just getting some time to jump in, but boy again everyone seems to have said it all. I must say though that you guys really are the coolest bunch around Heres my take : 1. Maddie is often characterized as being cold, but she seems genuinely excited for MacGillicudy when she first hears of his marriage and even hugs him. How would you describe Maddie’s relationship with the employees? -Maddie does seem excited and then it kinda fades once she gets the full story.She is definitely awkward with the employees. She believes she is BOSS not BUDDY like David always is to them. So when she tried to break those barriers the few times during the series it's not normal for her so she doesnt really get it right with them till maybe the last season.Obviously another discussion there when those episodes come up 2. Why do you think Maddie is so angry with David throughout much of this episode? It seems to go beyond simple philosophical differences that, by now, she should be fairly accustomed to. What do you think is behind it? -Maybe it stems from those deep down feelings for him she hasnt let come to the surface yet. Deep down she cares for David but wont let it come through. So shes acts this way not knowing why maybe? 3- In the scene in Maddie’s office that ends with her slapping David, what do you think is David’s motivation when he says such mean things about the “crap” underneath her “attractive” exterior? -Daivd is truly hurt by Maddie alot. She nevers gives him the credit he deserves or lets him try to lead a case ,she always has to pull rank on him, make him feel lower than her. She goes on about how he disobeyed her orders and he says she gets on her high and mighty and tells him what to do, But i believe he feels so strongly on this case he has to go against her. She really is i think the angriest in this episode with him so far in the series. I mean she is spitting mad at him in the office! She sure has used physical anger with him beofre,she slaps him in the PILOT but this is differant, she didnt know him then, this now is 2 people who have known each other say maybe almost 3 years. And yes she will slap him again come the end of this 3rd season which leads to something even bigger LOL 4. The kisses at the end of the episode mark the second time that David and Maddie have dreamt or fantasized vividly about kissing each other (the first, of course, being during The Dream Sequence Always Rings Twice). How would you describe the differences between the two sets of fantasies, and to what would you attribute those differences? -Well the Dream sequence episode kisses really arent the characters of Maddie and David doing the kissing. It's Rita and Zack. In this episode it's Maddie and David and you know it's them. They both have visions of themselves this time together kissing very passionately. It's a kiss like i need you so badly . It's so HOT! Don't you just love the way David licks his lips after his dream kiss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL 5. The interactions between David and Maddie in this episode cover a wide spectrum of emotions. Which interaction, or scene, do you like the best, or find to be the most significant? -Maddie is the way she is i think maybe from the way she was brought up,she sees people work hard their whole lives, get married to each other and stay with each other forever. She wants that in life. She starts to think maybe David is a good guy and then he will do or say something to change her mind like in this episode and thats when we get these arguments. Well these are just my 2 cents This is a really great-great episode!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 16, 2008 16:59:37 GMT -5
Intriguing questions, ditzy! And very clever answers, too! I' ll try to give an answer to question 1: I don't think Maddie is a cold person... She's just used to controlling herself. Think about it: everybody has his/her own attitude toward life... There are people who think life's a party... Some people are prone to marrying, having children and taking good care of their family... Then there are people like Maddie, people who dedicate every fiber of their existence to a career. She was a model... I'm sure modeling is not an easy job. Lots of rules, lost of pressure... Then one day she wakes up and finds out that (almost) everything she owns has been stolen. How does she react? Does she go back to bed and start crying over spilled milk? No. She reinvents herself. Her past defines her personality: she's a serious woman, committed to her job. She's the kind of woman who keeps her emotions under restraint, maybe because she's aware that sometimes feelings hamper business. And Maddie is a businesswoman. Nevertheless, she HAS feelings. She has a huge heart. She just does not want to show it. At the office, she's the boss. She thinks roles have to be demarcated (think about "My Fair David", for example) because that's how a working environment should be. On special occasions, however, the chains that tie her emotions loosen a little bit, and Maddie allows herself to act spontaneously. That's what happens with MacGillicudy: she's genuinely happy for him! When she hears all the excitement outside she's not annoyed... she smiles, she's curious... If she were a cold person she'd have minded her business! But she doesn't. So I think Maddie is a very sensitive woman. She can be spontaneous, but she chooses not to be. She deals with the employees in a professional way, but this doesn't mean she doesn't care for them.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 16, 2008 17:11:57 GMT -5
I think that David teaches Maddie far more than she ever can teach him. I totally agree with you. David helps Maddie in the development of her sensitivity. She is sensitive, but sometimes... she forgets it! ;D
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Post by italianbluemooner on Nov 16, 2008 17:25:10 GMT -5
And, BTW, he is definitely on something mind-altering...or mind-removing. Catch the blank stare in Maddie's office, before he says "Home"?
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