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Post by diane on Apr 29, 2009 1:15:20 GMT -5
Script 3:
After Jerome shows the baby the clip from Atomic, and explains his theory of why they fight, this scene is added:
BABY: I don't know.....I just got to believe there's an easier way...
JEROME: So did your mother. Her soul was in the world alone...I don't know where David was....limbo, maybe....but love...like life...is a very complicated affair....
(and then)
Anyway, she married another...still has nightmares about it, in fact...
He then shows the "Pat Boone/new David scene from "Tracks of My Tears (which I am NOT going to retype here!) It ends with Maddie suggesting to the new David that they sleep out on the lawn, and her turning to find new David snoring.
The BABY turns away from the television
BABY: They got along so well.
JEROME: Yes, and she was quite miserable.
The scene continues with David coming back into the office
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Post by diane on Apr 29, 2009 1:25:40 GMT -5
Script 4:
Agnes and Bert in the office......little additions:
BERT: I have other plans.
AGNES: You what?
BERT: I have.....
AGNES: Change them.
BERT: Can't...the Rod and Reel Society's meeting tonight to discuss our spring bass trip.
AGNES: They're just going to have to discuss it without you then, because you have another engagement.
BERT: Agnes, I've been asked to give a presentation on probably the deadliest dry fly on the planet...the rat faced irresistible.
AGNES: That's a load of malarkey and you know it....you've known about this shower for two weeks.
BERT: Sorry Agnes, Miss Hayes is going to have to understand.
AGNES: Yeah...well Agnes Dipesto doesn't!
It then goes on as aired until Agnes tells Brt he is a worry wart.
BERT: You're right, I am...and do I.....we.....want to pass a genetic weakness like that along? A dynasty of Violas sitting around the table worrying about each other worrying about each other? No...the honorable thing would be to chlorinate the gene pool
The scene finishes as aired.
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Post by diane on Apr 29, 2009 1:28:59 GMT -5
There's one more....but I am falling asleep at the keyboard, and I need to check it again with the episode. I will post it in the AM....
Good night...or good morning!
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Post by marple on Apr 29, 2009 3:08:50 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the great job to all of you on this thread! Still I canft make my comment about this episode due to lots of frustration and sadness I feelc But I just wanted to express many, many thanks to everyone. All your posts are priceless information for mec and with great care for our favorite duo and the show. I really appreciate this rewatching project. Thanks a lot!
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 29, 2009 8:31:21 GMT -5
DEEP Q's.....are you a prosecuting attorney there bees??? This will be a LOOOONG evening! I better get re-watching! LOL!! Nope...former school teacher...that explains it, right??!! Love your avatar this week!
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 29, 2009 8:41:29 GMT -5
Now, here is where I am going to be unpopular. I still think they could have had Maddie lose the baby and salvaged both the episode and the season.......Again, we have an episode without a case -- take some of the crap out, and make it a real ML episode. And if the decision was that they couldn't make the show work with a baby, fine. But treat the loss of the baby in a dignified manner, without stupid jokes about trying again. And most importantly, have Maddie and David go on with real lives......mourning as real people do, but together, as a couple. diane
I completely agree. Singing in the elevator in the next episode did not make things all better. That elevator scene in "Yuk..." could have been the key to bringing the show back, imo. Instead, I was trying to avoid rabid sharks and they bit me in the butt!!
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Post by rose35 on Apr 29, 2009 8:43:17 GMT -5
DEEP Q's.....are you a prosecuting attorney there bees??? This will be a LOOOONG evening! I better get re-watching! LOL!! Nope...former school teacher...that explains it, right??!! Love your avatar this week! Yes i love your Avatar too Gray! PERFECT! Thanks Diane for giving us the script info too! Always appreciated when you can do it! And BEESN..... i was glad to be able to send you a few questions, glad you could use them!
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Post by rose35 on Apr 29, 2009 8:46:16 GMT -5
Now, here is where I am going to be unpopular. I still think they could have had Maddie lose the baby and salvaged both the episode and the season.......Again, we have an episode without a case -- take some of the crap out, and make it a real ML episode. And if the decision was that they couldn't make the show work with a baby, fine. But treat the loss of the baby in a dignified manner, without stupid jokes about trying again. And most importantly, have Maddie and David go on with real lives......mourning as real people do, but together, as a couple. diane I completely agree. Singing in the elevator in the next episode did not make things all better. That elevator scene in "Yuk..." could have been the key to bringing the show back, imo. Instead, I was trying to avoid rabid sharks and they bit me in the butt!! No not unpopular Diane i agree with you too on this. I kinda mentioned something like this in one of my posts, if the baby had to be lost M/D relationship still could have been saved, the writers unfortunatlety maybe didnt want them together and thats why they went the way they did i guess.
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Post by beesnbears on Apr 29, 2009 8:55:41 GMT -5
Temporary insanity?? This episode has always driven me crazy, and when Cindy and I interviewed GGC, I went prepared to get an answer to this question. I did get to ask it, and he honestly could not give me a straight answer......he begged off, saying he remembered very little of the episode. There is a little more candor in the commentary, but I really believe it was his swan song, and he was going to do it the way he wanted. diane
You are so lucky to have gotten to meet him and ask about his last episode!! Did you try any torture tactics to get him to 'fess up??!! Maybe you should have taken Gray...
But, I did get the distinct impression from reading that interview that he really did not want to say a whole lot about it knowing he screwed it up. He kind of admits this in the commentary.
Sounds like he was just in a very different place in his life when he wrote the episode and this had a ton of influence in his fingers when he was at his typewriter.
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Post by jpen on Apr 29, 2009 9:05:44 GMT -5
Now, here is where I am going to be unpopular. I still think they could have had Maddie lose the baby and salvaged both the episode and the season.......Again, we have an episode without a case -- take some of the crap out, and make it a real ML episode. And if the decision was that they couldn't make the show work with a baby, fine. But treat the loss of the baby in a dignified manner, without stupid jokes about trying again. And most importantly, have Maddie and David go on with real lives......mourning as real people do, but together, as a couple. diane I completely agree. Singing in the elevator in the next episode did not make things all better. That elevator scene in "Yuk..." could have been the key to bringing the show back, imo. Instead, I was trying to avoid rabid sharks and they bit me in the butt!! Yep, me too. Although the decision for her to lose the baby made me sad, in and of itself, that is not the JTS moment for me. The way the decision played out, however, turned me off so thoroughly that I don't even remember watching the show after BAYAAHP. Maddie and David were meant to be together...had fought to be together...and still could have been together, even after this tragedy. In fact, as bees says, the elevator scene could have been a whole new beginning for them--forging a deeper connection, leaving behind some of the anxieties and insecurities that had kept them apart.
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Post by jpen on Apr 29, 2009 9:15:02 GMT -5
Script part 2: In the scene before the Jerome shows Baby Hayes his parents,this is left out: JEROME: You, Baby Hayes, are the product of two people's love. If everything goes according to plan, when you are born, it is with much anticipation and joy on the part of these two people. They are called your parents. BABY: Wait a second....what's this "according to plan" mumbo jumbo? JEROME (looking a bit uneasy): As I mentioned earlier, life is complicated. BABY: But what about the Creator? If that's the way he wants it......? JEROME: You're getting ahead of yourself....into the areas of destiny and free will...and it's really much easier if we take it all in order. BABY: I don't know.....I'm beginning to smell a loophole you could drive a Tonka truck through.... JEROME: Please, Baby Hayes, one thing at a time..... (Continues with parents scene).... Diane, thanks as always for these script differences...this one is pretty major, in that it plants the seed for what will come later. I'm not sure I would've wanted the warning--it would take away a little in terms of tone from what, IMO, are the best parts of this episode--but at least the ending wouldn't have felt quite so much like a sucker punch.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 29, 2009 9:59:43 GMT -5
Boy, sorry I had to bail so abruptly last night folks, but couldn't be helped.
Anyhow, it looks like we came up with a bunch of great posts after my departure. Wonderful discussion of a very, VERY difficult episode.
You know, for two weeks now we have reviewed season opening episodes, and in both cases we have seen fillers and stretched scenes to make time requirements. I don't know about you, but I remember feeling cheated by this lack of professionalism on the part of the production team.
I can understand those mid-season shows where they were trying to get the episode out on a shorter time schedule, but hey, this one (and ATTTM) had MONTHS to prepare. The least the fans should expect is a season opener free of extraneous celluloid. Is 48 minutes of scrap free dialog too much to ask for?
Maybe I'm being too hard here, but even as evidenced by the commentary of both of the episodes referenced, there was not a 100% effort being put into these shows, (not counting the fine acting jobs).
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 29, 2009 11:57:36 GMT -5
Now, here is where I am going to be unpopular. I still think they could have had Maddie lose the baby and salvaged both the episode and the season.......Again, we have an episode without a case -- take some of the crap out, and make it a real ML episode. And if the decision was that they couldn't make the show work with a baby, fine. But treat the loss of the baby in a dignified manner, without stupid jokes about trying again. And most importantly, have Maddie and David go on with real lives......mourning as real people do, but together, as a couple. diane I completely agree. Singing in the elevator in the next episode did not make things all better. That elevator scene in "Yuk..." could have been the key to bringing the show back, imo. Instead, I was trying to avoid rabid sharks and they bit me in the butt!! Yep, me too. Although the decision for her to lose the baby made me sad, in and of itself, that is not the JTS moment for me. The way the decision played out, however, turned me off so thoroughly that I don't even remember watching the show after BAYAAHP. Maddie and David were meant to be together...had fought to be together...and still could have been together, even after this tragedy. In fact, as bees says, the elevator scene could have been a whole new beginning for them--forging a deeper connection, leaving behind some of the anxieties and insecurities that had kept them apart. Make it a trifecta. They could have recovered from this nose dive...maybe...if they had treated the loss of the child with at least a BIT more dignity than skipping and singing down the hall. I'm not sure even that could have put this train wreck back on the tracks of our tears. Boy, I hope we pick a funny episode for next week.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 29, 2009 13:33:09 GMT -5
What are your thoughts as to why the writers wrote this episode as they did? Now, here is where I am going to be unpopular. I still think they could have had Maddie lose the baby and salvaged both the episode and the season.......Again, we have an episode without a case -- take some of the crap out, and make it a real ML episode. And if the decision was that they couldn't make the show work with a baby, fine. But treat the loss of the baby in a dignified manner, without stupid jokes about trying again. And most importantly, have Maddie and David go on with real lives......mourning as real people do, but together, as a couple. Diane, I agree, it could have been done. No, I wouldn't have been happy about the loss of the baby but I dam sure wasn't happy about the loss of the show. So to pick my battles, I would have chosen the show over the baby but to loose both; well, what was the point?
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Post by sinceifell4u on Apr 29, 2009 13:45:17 GMT -5
Thank you so much for the great job to all of you on this thread! Still I canft make my comment about this episode due to lots of frustration and sadness I feelc But I just wanted to express many, many thanks to everyone. All your posts are priceless information for mec and with great care for our favorite duo and the show. I really appreciate this rewatching project. Thanks a lot! I feel you, seems we all have our issues here...physical (I'm nauseous right now) , emotional and need I say mental. Just drives home for me that WWAV was the beginning of the end, I think that's why the pit of my stomach is so sour right now. Just thinking about what could have been...the characters, actors and fans deserved better.
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