goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 24, 2011 2:44:04 GMT -5
... sad fact is we have to put up with how Maddie acted in season four, and discuss it. why is it sad? Her behavior was very understandable. Look at it like at a mere reaction to somebody else's bahavior.
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Post by sandra on Aug 24, 2011 4:47:15 GMT -5
Why it is sad? Well, I can't find anything to be happy about in Maddie's season four behavior, can you? But I don't think it's useful if we repeat this discussion now again on this thread. To you, Maddie is completely innocent, and only David is to blame for everything that went wrong, a four-months'-stay and a marriage to a stranger included. I know perfectly well that this is your opinion, and I respect it. Maybe the newbies should jump in.
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Post by diane on Aug 24, 2011 12:04:02 GMT -5
I'm not a newbie, but I'm jumping.
Granted, there is little about Maddie in season 4 that can make us happy (except that by the end of the season she has at least figured a few truths out), but surely that doesn't mean her behavior can't be understood. She definitely made mistakes, but I can understand why she did many of the things she did. As a woman of the 80s, I get her.
I love my moon crossed lovers -- both of them-- but I do consider them equally at fault for the state of their relationship...and their slates.
Another question -- does the clean slate comment only encompass season 4....or is there more of the past to look at?
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Post by mackidockie on Aug 24, 2011 13:30:14 GMT -5
She definitely made mistakes, but I can understand why she did many of the things she did. As a woman of the 80s, I get her. I love my moon crossed lovers -- both of them-- but I do consider them equally at fault for the state of their relationship...and their slates. That's my point exactly. Regarding Maddie and regarding Cybill. I think that Cybill portrayed in Maddie how difficult it was to be a woman in the 80s. Of course it wasn't entirely a case of art imitating life but you can see lots of glimpses in her acting. And yes, faults are 50-50.
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Post by beesnbears on Aug 24, 2011 16:23:41 GMT -5
"Another question -- does the clean slate comment only encompass season 4....or is there more of the past to look at?"
I think when Maddie asked for a clean slate she was talking about since way back in season 2...."Money Talks...", "Atlas Belched", "Witness...", "Big Man..." come to mind, with missed chances and opportunities for both of them to communicate how they felt about each other. Even "Knowing Her" with David chickening out on leaving the rose on Maddie's desk.(Though she wasn't aware of it)
She had 4 months to think about the past.
I don't think she was referring only to the Sam and Walter fiasco or her going to Chicago and then finding out she was pregnant. I do think she felt they had both done things wrong along the way, but David was only thinking of Chicago and her staying away so long, only to come back married to Wally.
I will never think of Maddie as a b!@?! I do understand why she took up with Sam and why she took off to Chicago. Does it make me mad? Oh, yes! Very!! I just wanna shake her!! ;D
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 24, 2011 16:56:35 GMT -5
I will never think of Maddie as a b!@?! I do understand why she took up with Sam and why she took off to Chicago. Does it make me mad? Oh, yes! Very!! I just wanna shake her!! ;D Oh Bees! I couldn't say it better. I feel the same. I do understand why Maddie did what she did, it doesn't mean I like it though...but I understand her. And I do believe her when she says to David that she never wanted to hurt him. She did, but she never wanted to. I think
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Post by diane on Aug 24, 2011 20:47:04 GMT -5
"Another question -- does the clean slate comment only encompass season 4....or is there more of the past to look at?" I think when Maddie asked for a clean slate she was talking about since way back in season 2...."Money Talks...", "Atlas Belched", "Witness...", "Big Man..." come to mind, with missed chances and opportunities for both of them to communicate how they felt about each other. Even "Knowing Her" with David chickening out on leaving the rose on Maddie's desk.(Though she wasn't aware of it) She had 4 months to think about the past. I don't think she was referring only to the Sam and Walter fiasco or her going to Chicago and then finding out she was pregnant. I do think she felt they had both done things wrong along the way, but David was only thinking of Chicago and her staying away so long, only to come back married to Wally. Exactly my point, Bees. The whole thing goes so much deeper than what happened in season four. And I think we are putting too much emphasis on the "B" word.....probably every one in life has done a few "bitchy" things now and then, but that certainly doesn't define anybody....especially our girl, Maddie! We've seen too much of the true heart of gold she carries within.
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Post by beesnbears on Aug 24, 2011 22:11:51 GMT -5
Yes...the B word is a little much here....I'm sure I've done some bitchy things before! ;D
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 25, 2011 5:40:32 GMT -5
And I think we are putting too much emphasis on the "B" word.....probably every one in life has done a few "bitchy" things now and then, but that certainly doesn't define anybody....especially our girl, Maddie! We've seen too much of the true heart of gold she carries within. So true, Diane! Thank you for this. I know I did "bitchy" things, now and then...then mostly No one is perfect. I love how you girls look at the situation deeper than what happened in season four...
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Post by iluvdavid on Aug 25, 2011 14:25:43 GMT -5
I didn't mean to create such a turmoil with my use of the "b" word! I still hold my ground that David didn't do anything to cause Maddie to behave so badly towards him. I just feel that the way she treated David after they slept together was wrong...Maybe she was afraid he would hurt her...I don't know. In the episode " A Trip to the Moon' she actually looks disgusted when she looks at David..and the scene in the laundromat when she proclaims that they have never even had a cheeseburger together..in 3 or so years of working together I am sure they have shared many meals.And when David says to her before they leave for the date that he feels it is a test that she is just waiting for him to fail..well I agree with him! She is trying to do everything in her power to push him away...maybe the writers should have written it differently. I would have let David be pushed away and not run after her..the scene with him at the door in that episode is nothing less than pathetic! Maybe then Maddie would have had time to think and she would have realized she really wanted him. Anything too easily gotten..is never valued! And I have always liked the Maddie character and can even relate to her in many ways...I think I may have even pulled some of her crap with men I have dated..but watching it on tv showed me how wrong it really was to play games with people...I think Maddie needed to see how she was treating David..and then when she told never they were "pals" OUCH!!!! LOL
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Post by sandra on Aug 25, 2011 15:19:09 GMT -5
And when David says to her before they leave for the date that he feels it is a test that she is just waiting for him to fail..well I agree with him! Like she said... she was ambivalent right from he beginning. The poor guy never had a chance at that moment - even if he had planned the perfect "fine" evening for her; I think, out of her confusion and fear of the intensity of her own feelings, fear of losing control, she would have found a reason to push him away, or to run away.
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Post by iluvdavid on Aug 25, 2011 18:29:43 GMT -5
True so true! Even David tells her "Now I know why you're 35 years old and still alone..you're nuts that's why" lol lol... They really never give an real reasons why Maddie is so frightened of intimacy...a story line of how she was hurt may have helped the audience understand. I mean we know why David is so glib and why he is alone...Jillian and his lesbian wife lol lol
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Aug 26, 2011 15:07:48 GMT -5
Okay now I'm a David's girl but I think I can answer this question about Maddie (Goldie tell me if I do okay?). Maddie is afraid of intimacy because she is beautiful - people have always talked to her stunning face first, maybe they get to know her later but it's always the outside package that they are initially interested in...maybe a few times she thought they were for real but it always ended up that they were more interested that she was a model than getting to know real her. So over and over she is repeatedly disappointed in men and probably had her heart broken a fair few times - so she built a hard exterior to manage (remember the quote about the scar tissue smile?). By the age of 35 she has become hardened to men; she has heard all of their lines- she's tired of it. So when David appears (and let's face it - he was sexually attracted to the package on day one but only got to know her over the years in an intimate way) - and he's uncouth, funny at her expense, glib etc etc etc - it's hard to stop testing the guy to see if he is for real! By the time she realises he is actually the one genuine guy in her life...it's too late. That, I believe, is the story of Maddie Hayes. JMHO. X
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Post by finefinegoodgood on Aug 26, 2011 15:13:52 GMT -5
Okay now I'm a David's girl but I think I can answer this question about Maddie (Goldie tell me if I do okay?). Maddie is afraid of intimacy because she is beautiful - people have always talked to her stunning face first, maybe they get to know her later but it's always the outside package that they are initially interested in...maybe a few times she thought they were for real but it always ended up that they were more interested that she was a model than getting to know real her. So over and over she is repeatedly disappointed in men and probably had her heart broken a fair few times - so she built a hard exterior to manage (remember the quote about the scar tissue smile?). By the age of 35 she has become hardened to men; she has heard all of their lines- she's tired of it. So when David appears (and let's face it - he was sexually attracted to the package on day one but only got to know her over the years in an intimate way) - and he's uncouth, funny at her expense, glib etc etc etc - it's hard to stop testing the guy to see if he is for real! By the time she realises he is actually the one genuine guy in her life...it's too late. That, I believe, is the story of Maddie Hayes. JMHO. X Very very well put BMS. Goldie will be proud. I totally agree with you on this.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Aug 26, 2011 17:01:50 GMT -5
Okay now I'm a David's girl but I think I can answer this question about Maddie (Goldie tell me if I do okay?). Maddie is afraid of intimacy because she is beautiful - people have always talked to her stunning face first, maybe they get to know her later but it's always the outside package that they are initially interested in...maybe a few times she thought they were for real but it always ended up that they were more interested that she was a model than getting to know real her. So over and over she is repeatedly disappointed in men and probably had her heart broken a fair few times - so she built a hard exterior to manage (remember the quote about the scar tissue smile?). By the age of 35 she has become hardened to men; she has heard all of their lines- she's tired of it. So when David appears (and let's face it - he was sexually attracted to the package on day one but only got to know her over the years in an intimate way) - and he's uncouth, funny at her expense, glib etc etc etc - it's hard to stop testing the guy to see if he is for real! By the time she realises he is actually the one genuine guy in her life...it's too late. That, I believe, is the story of Maddie Hayes. JMHO. X Very very well put BMS. Goldie will be proud. I totally agree with you on this. Awwww Kim, I AM proud and happy too! I agree absolutely with everything Nancy said. I do think that her beauty played its role in her hesitation, as David said it once: "It is tough to be a beautiful blonde in America" or smth like this Nancy, I so love your approach, thank you!
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