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Post by lin212 on Sept 22, 2009 21:07:03 GMT -5
1. What parallels, if any, are there between Maddie and David and the Clements case?Hmm Bees, you have me there. I see a number of differences, rather than parallels. Clements treats his wife as a possession to be revered, where I think Dave would prefer Maddie to be just an equal, a sparring partner. Clements chases away her friends...Dave encourages Maddie to open up and get some. Celia allows herself to be controlled to the point where she snaps; Maddie is quite the opposite. These are great points, gray. There are a number of differences. Even though it doesn't happen until later, the only similarity may be that both women run away from their problems...Celia pretends to drive off a cliff and Maddie flies off to Chicago. |
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 22, 2009 21:10:15 GMT -5
Even though it doesn't happen until later, the only similarity may be that both women run away from their problems...Celia pretends to drive off a cliff and Maddie flies off to Chicago. This is why I love this board. Something I had not considered. Game-set-match for Lin. |
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Post by lin212 on Sept 22, 2009 21:17:19 GMT -5
3. What is really the root of David’s anger when Maddie insists on returning their fee?
David feels that they earned the fee because they tried. Even though it didn't all work out, it wasn't their fault. They did succeed in calling off the hit, they just had no way of knowing that the lawyer had a back up plan. BUT underneath it all, I think that David was steamed that the weekend in Chicago was cancelled and for what? They weren't even going to get paid for their efforts? It certainly put him in a very bad mood.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 22, 2009 21:17:26 GMT -5
3. What is really the root of David’s anger when Maddie insists on returning their fee?
I think he is angry because they didn't make it to Chicago. He REALLY wanted to take her as evidenced by him saying " I just hope you'll ask me again and I’ll be smart enough to say yes...and we'll be smart enough to go!"
And Maddie doesn't see it in his office while he packs his tux, thinking it is only the money...which makes it worse.
Although I do agree with gray in that he is tired of actually working to make money and Maddie keeps giving fees back!
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Post by marple on Sept 22, 2009 22:09:23 GMT -5
Thanks to bees, for starting the discussion! Itfs been a long time since I watched this episode last. And I found it still brilliant. And you guys discussion made me laugh a lot! So fun! Ifm afraid to say a little bit stiff things.  1. Ifve never thought of a connection between Clements case and D&M beforecBut knowing Maddie running away from David afterwards like his wife, it causes me an odd feeling. What a coincidence! 2. My take is that Maddie doesnft want to take this opportunity as a personal thing, itfs actually a great thing though. I guess she is not so willing to go to the wedding either, she looks a little bored with it. I think she is taking it as a duty or business to do. So, I suppose she chose one NSM first, like a tux or a car. But being with David in her whole family would push their relationship forward, and if he is delighted with itcwhat would happen? The next step of the garage kiss might happen between the twocAnd I think she probably notices it, but she is not ready for it. She looks just enjoying their daily partnership. |
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Post by sinceifell4u on Sept 22, 2009 22:22:46 GMT -5
Hi all~ Although I have no questions for this review to contribute, I will answer the questions and make sure I'm prepared for the 29th. 1. What parallels, if any, are there between Maddie and David and the Clements case? Although not to the extent of Mrs. Clements, Maddie eventually feels the need to flee from Davids' affections: Suffocated only by her own anxiety, not David's love. That is the only instance that immediately comes to mind. 2. Why do you suppose Maddie doesn’t want David to be “delighted” to take her to a family wedding in Chicago? I feel Maddie thinks that if David grudgingly agrees to escort her to Chicago, they will not be companions in the sense of a personal relationship yet as colleagues. Thus keeping the boundaries of professional vs intimacy, even if in her own mind, between them in her attempt to control her inner desire for David's companionship. 3. What is really the root of David’s anger when Maddie insists on returning their fee? David was peeved because it defeated the purpose of he and Maddie missing their planned festivities in Chicago. What was it all for if they were not going to be paid for the missed opportunity of enjoying each others company outside of the office? |
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Post by sinceifell4u on Sept 22, 2009 22:26:00 GMT -5
Even though it doesn't happen until later, the only similarity may be that both women run away from their problems...Celia pretends to drive off a cliff and Maddie flies off to Chicago. This is why I love this board. Something I had not considered. Game-set-match for Lin. I agree, as you will see from my first post. I wonder if this is coincidental or if the writers used this as a template for Cybill's hiatus~ |
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Post by jpen on Sept 22, 2009 22:53:54 GMT -5
3. What is really the root of David’s anger when Maddie insists on returning their fee? I think he is angry because they didn't make it to Chicago. He REALLY wanted to take her as evidenced by him saying " I just hope you'll ask me again and I’ll be smart enough to say yes...and we'll be smart enough to go!" And Maddie doesn't see it in his office while he packs his tux, thinking it is only the money...which makes it worse. Although I do agree with gray in that he is tired of actually working to make money and Maddie keeps giving fees back! Totally agree, bees. As for that moment in the car, I was sorta shocked by how honest David was--no sarcasm, no puns, no innuendo...he's really putting at least some of the cards on the table. And Maddie smiles back--no snide comments from her either. It was really sweet; it could've been a watershed moment between them. And it makes me wonder how Maddie could NOT see how much David cares.  |
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Post by sinceifell4u on Sept 22, 2009 22:56:24 GMT -5
I don't know if it is too late to contribute but some questions came to mind after I walked away from the computer.
1) What does the title "Funeral For A Doornail" have to do with this episode?
2) Maddie has much compassion for Mr. Clements and believes that he has actually seen his wife, therefore promises to find Mrs. Clements based on his word. A) Why does Maddie believe Mr. Clements is actually sane enough to be trusted? B) Does this in any way have to do with Maddie's philosophy regarding people who are "meant" to be together finding each other?
3) Do you believe Celia made the correct assumption regarding her husbands dedication to find her if she had merely attempted to divorce him?
4) In Maddie's list of reasons for not wanting David to be "delighted" about escorting her to Chicago she says "Quizzing me on what our sleeping arrangements are going to be". What, if anything, does this tell you about Maddie's anxieties/thought process about introducing David to her entire family?
5) Do you believe that Maddie is genuinely concerned with the Clements case or did she use it as a cop out for attending the wedding?
Thanks guys and I hope this adds to the discussion.
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Post by marple on Sept 22, 2009 23:59:16 GMT -5
So glad to find you since on the board again! Welcome back from me!!  1) This puzzled me either. And I found the great comments about the title. moonlighting.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Funeral&action=display&thread=2512) I think this is interesting ... Only thing I've come up with is Maddie becomes quite a detective at times, very different from her a year ago. She has the ability to smell out something wrong, her instinct I think. And she is usually sympathetic to clients, probably wants to do her best. |
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witness
3rd Level
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Post by witness on Sept 23, 2009 0:02:46 GMT -5
Eyes on your own papers, people! JK. I got here late and everybody has already so eloquently answered bees' questions. As dear Dave would say, and does in this episode, "Dawggoneit." 5) Do you believe that Maddie is genuinely concerned with the Clements case or did she use it as a cop out for attending the wedding? I thought about this myself after watching the episode. I see it as a bit of both. Maddie genuinely wants them to honor their commitment to Mr. Clements. Plus, it seems Maddie romanticizes Mr. Clements' plight. But she is trying (after the garage kiss?) to settle again into their business relationship and thinks she may have crossed back into this personal/business confusion by asking David to be her date at the wedding. So the case is a viable excuse not to attend and not to have to deal with the family wondering about the status of their relationship. |
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Sept 23, 2009 8:19:24 GMT -5
The Forum PD today announced they are suspending the search for the missing Since. Welcome back pretty girl! Missed you!
Anyway, on to some of her questions.
3) Do you believe Celia made the correct assumption regarding her husbands dedication to find her if she had merely attempted to divorce him?
Oh yeah. Roger had it in big time for the obviously younger Celia. We don't know a lot about his previous life other than he didn't have any family due to being adopted and alienated from his adoptive parents, who would have been elderly by this time.
So Roger would want to fill that family and companionship bond by doting on his wife. She literally became a PART of him, and without her, he could not continue. This is obvious by his obsession with taking photos of her at every occasion (although I can't fault him for that), monopolizing her time, and his reaction to her apparent demise.
He paid a hit man to end his life when he thought she was dead....if she was still alive he would have become a Grade A stalker extraordinaire.
Too bad. He didn't seem like a bad dude...he just loved her too much.
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Post by jpen on Sept 23, 2009 14:41:41 GMT -5
2) Maddie has much compassion for Mr. Clements and believes that he has actually seen his wife, therefore promises to find Mrs. Clements based on his word. A) Why does Maddie believe Mr. Clements is actually sane enough to be trusted? B) Does this in any way have to do with Maddie's philosophy regarding people who are "meant" to be together finding each other?
Great question(s), since--and good to see you back!  First of all, I think that both David and Maddie believe Mr. Clements at first, because they have no reason not to believe him. He seems perfectly sincere as far as they're concerned--not a "wack job" at all. Having said that, though, Maddie is clearly the more compassionate in this instance, as evidenced by her discussion with David in the car and her determination to find Mrs. Clements even after the Mr. is dead. So...why is this the case? In my mind, your questions are very related. Maddie believes in Mr. Clements and his story because she is a closet romantic. She probably wouldn't want to admit this, but she really does believe, on some level, that people who are "meant" to be together will find each other. It's also why she developed a crush on Paul McCain, and agreed to a "demonstration date" with David in "Symphony." Sadly, though, her romanticism doesn't always stand her in good stead--much like her spontaneous impulses. Probably her most "grand" romantic gesture in the series was marrying a man she had just met on a train...and that one didn't turn out too well.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 23, 2009 22:28:59 GMT -5
For the record, I am not, nor have I ever been accused of being......an NSM. Court adjourned. I figured as much!! ;D |
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 23, 2009 22:36:33 GMT -5
4) In Maddie's list of reasons for not wanting David to be "delighted" about escorting her to Chicago she says "Quizzing me on what our sleeping arrangements are going to be". What, if anything, does this tell you about Maddie's anxieties/thought process about introducing David to her entire family? since
Good one, since! And glad to see ya' back in these parts!!
I think the reason she says this is because she has thought about it...a lot!
"You said safe, not dead" LOL!!
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First of all, I think that both David and Maddie believe Mr. Clements at first, because they have no reason not to believe him. He seems perfectly sincere as far as they're concerned--not a "wack job" at all. Having said that, though, Maddie is clearly the more compassionate in this instance, as evidenced by her discussion with David in the car and her determination to find Mrs. Clements even after the Mr. is dead.