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Post by lin212 on Oct 13, 2009 20:56:51 GMT -5
gray, I forgot to mention your avatar - chuckle-worthy, as usual. Keep 'em coming.
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Post by jpen on Oct 13, 2009 20:57:58 GMT -5
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
This is a great question (and, for me, the one that started the wheels turning for "Remix"). I agree with lin, gray, and bees, that David is shocked and overwhelmed, so much so that he can't function as his "normal wisecracking self" in that moment. But I also think David is afraid--afraid that if he did make the offer, it would become too "real." Maddie is deadly serious here, in a way he's never seen her, and it would be impossible to laugh off a proposition as a joke or bit of banter. Which would make the inevitable (to him) rejection of it very, very hurtful.
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Post by jpen on Oct 13, 2009 21:06:32 GMT -5
Coupla questions: 1. What is driving David in that opening scene between them to get Maddie to fight with him? 2. When David yells, "I don't wanna hear this," what's behind Maddie's response to him? 3. Am I crazy, or did the writers get the whole goose/gander comment backwards? (That one has always bugged me!) 4. To what extent do you think David realizes/recognizes his feelings, before Joan lays them bare?
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Post by marple on Oct 13, 2009 21:07:36 GMT -5
Thank you for the information about the title and the great questions, diane! We have waited for you so long!
2. In almost every episode, David propositions Maddie one way or another. Why, when she clearly told him she was looking for "fulfillment", did he not offer ...even as his normal wisecracking self?
Ifve wondered the same question many times before and agree with gray, bees and lin's opinions. And I also think the quality of their relationship has changed since Big Man. I think especially Maddie has become much, much important for David since then, like his whole life partner. It means that itfs not only the physical attraction, but he desires everything of her. And I think he feels her being very serious. He is not the man who would take advantages of her vulnerable positions.
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Post by jpen on Oct 13, 2009 21:12:16 GMT -5
I think the quality of their relationship has changed since Big Man. I think especially Maddie has become much, much important for David since then, like his whole life partner. It means that itfs not only the physical attraction, but he desires everything of her. And I think he feels her being very serious. He is not the man who would take advantages of her vulnerable positions. Great point, marple--totally agree. David's in it for the long haul now...a one night stand with Blondie Blonde is not gonna satisfy him.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 13, 2009 21:14:53 GMT -5
1. What is driving David in that opening scene between them to get Maddie to fight with him?
David is confused by Maddie's reaction (or lack therof) to his breach of office decorum. It's almost as if he doesn't know how to relate to this Maddie. He wants to get back on track and into the groove of their regular banter. It's kinda like "making up", it's the dance that they do. Oh, and we can't forget, February sweeps! LOL
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 21:21:12 GMT -5
1. What is driving David in that opening scene between them to get Maddie to fight with him? jpen
A. She looks blue and he wants to cheer her up
B. He needs his daily dose of getting a rise out of Maddie!!
C. He knows something is terribly wrong...
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Post by rose35 on Oct 13, 2009 21:24:42 GMT -5
Welcome to the long awaited discussion of THE BIG FOUR....most especially tonight, its first episode "Blonde on Blonde". Before we start with questions, I am delicately going to try and talk about the first title of this episode and its origins. This may not be easy on a G rated website.....hope no one is offended. But honestly, we are going to border on risque as we work our way through these episodes. The title originally was "The Night of the Zipless Dave", a title which came from "Fear of Flying" by Erica Jong. This novel was published in 1973, and was noted for its liberal views about women's sexuality, and became important in the advance of feminism. In the novel, Jong outlines what she calls "the zipless f**k", which is explained as follows: "A sexual encounter between strangers that has the swift compression of a dream and is seemingly free of all remorse and guilt. It is absolutely pure, there is no power game, and it is free of ulterior motives. " It has also been described as a perfect one night stand, and the highest plateau of casual sex. Susequently, after the censors objected, the episode was retitled "Blonde on Blonde", a title derived from a Dylan album...and a lot easier to discuss......phew!!! Hey all! Sorry i am joining in so late, but my head is about to explode from kids Drs visits and home selling/buying stuff AHHHHHH! This is what i need this place now! I will try to read and answer some tonight and tomorrow too. WOW Diane! What great info you give us! Amazing how i wouldnt have understood much of this back in the 80's LOL It's going to get HOTTER as we go along with these BIG 4 for sure! Missed all these chats!!
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 21:27:18 GMT -5
2. When David yells, "I don't wanna hear this," what's behind Maddie's response to him? jpen She's embarrassed initially and then irritated that he has a double standard for who does what in the office. Her belt is pinching though! Interesting that she didn't throw Agnes's name out there with Macgillucuddy's....
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Post by lin212 on Oct 13, 2009 21:29:10 GMT -5
4. To what extent do you think David realizes/recognizes his feelings, before Joan lays them bare?
I think that David hasn't given his feelings any real thought. He hasn't stopped to analyze the depth of his emotions or to define their relationship. Even when Joan reveals David's love for Maddie, he is ready to disagree. The expression on his face says it all - it's as if a cloud was lifted and he could suddenly see the truth.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 21:41:01 GMT -5
4. To what extent do you think David realizes/recognizes his feelings, before Joan lays them bare?
I think he has realized his feelings for her a very long time, but just won't admit it. In this ep, when he thinks he has missed her at the hotel in the stairwell scene stands out for me. I think he has thought about it many times.( Brother Can Yo..., Big Man...)
Reminds me of the commentary where Bruce is asking the same thing and he says he believes David loves Maddie.
But, even after Joan tells him, I think it really hits him when Sham answers the door.
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Post by jpen on Oct 13, 2009 21:42:02 GMT -5
6. I could do about 50 questions on this topic....but let's just keep it open ended. Discuss the scene at Maddie's door........A gut-twister, pure and simple, particularly after Sam shuts the door and David just looks back at it. Interestingly, the script directions (at least my version) read like this: ON DAVID ...nodding...a silent goodbye...and turning once more...DESCENDING the steps...a look of shock on his face and maybe a little hurt as well...and the man watches him go for a moment...then CLOSES the door... CLOSE ON DAVID ...coming down the walk...and behind him...the PORCH LIGHT SWITCHES OFF...and then David stops and looks back up at MADDIE'S BEDROOM WINDOW...and then...he tosses the FLOWERS INTO THE GUTTER...and we... CUT TO BLACK So obviously they made the decision to show a lot more of David after the door is closed, which allows Bruce time to express the wrenching heartbreak and disappointment David is feeling. Also, the porch light never goes out, and he doesn't look up at the window (can you blame the guy?). One other comment about this scene: it's, IMHO, our first glimpse of the Shamminess of Sam. He comes to the door, pants unbuttoned, as though he's the man of the house already, and his offer to wake Maddie is way too little, too late. (OK, I admit it, I may be irrationally prejudiced against him. )
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 21:45:11 GMT -5
I don't like Sam's smug look at the door AT ALL!!
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Post by jpen on Oct 13, 2009 21:45:28 GMT -5
2. When David yells, "I don't wanna hear this," what's behind Maddie's response to him? jpen She's embarrassed initially and then irritated that he has a double standard for who does what in the office.
Her belt is pinching though! Interesting that she didn't throw Agnes's name out there with Macgillucuddy's.... You bring up an important question, bees...is David's reaction sexist (from his point of view)? Does he really have a double standard? Discuss! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 13, 2009 21:51:16 GMT -5
He could be the sexiest sexist I've ever seen!!
However, I don't really believe he is sexist, just old fashioned standards or values maybe when it comes to women? Would that make him a sexist? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.
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