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Post by jpen on Oct 21, 2009 17:53:03 GMT -5
In this episode, we have three (potential) love triangles: David/Maddie/Sam, Elaine/Alan/Rita, and Agnes/Bert/Desiree. How are they similar? Different? First of all, the triple triangle situation is a reminder of how complex love and relationships can be, which is, of course, the topic that occupies us in this story arc (um, and possibly the whole series...or maybe that's just me ). As much as Maddie and David both, at (sadly differing) times, want to believe that loving someone is a simple matter of being in the right place at the right time...it doesn't often happen that way. In these three couples, we're able to see how people can be driven romantically by widely varying impulses: protectiveness, sympathy, desire, jealousy, selfishness, possessiveness, nostalgia, anxiety--the list goes on. One final point: it's interesting to me that the only true adulterer (Alan) feels no guilt at all, while both Maddie and Bert seem to feel (at some point, and on some level) guilty for betraying people they're not even in "official" relationships with.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 21, 2009 17:55:03 GMT -5
9. At what point does Maddie decide she's going to sleep with Sam...and why?I don't think she really decided until they dance in her bedroom. I think she thought about it, given her mood, but going to the Metropolis was a disaster for her and I think she put a little of those feeling on the back burner when Sam showed up. Meaning the "not know his name and be bad, really bad" part! Once she was in his arms though it was comfortable and familiar and somewhat safe. 10. How would you characterize Maddie's reactions in the bedroom scene? What is she thinking at the end?I know she's thinking of David...I'm psychic that way...LOL! She's wondering why he behaved the way he did at dinner and wants to know what he came to tell her. Again, her reaction was one of feeling safe with Sam the Familiar. 11. OK, time to confront the blue-eyed elephant in the room: Sam. What are your impressions of him, based on this episode?Well, I don't trust him from the time he opens Maddie's front door because of the way he looks at David. And then he ices this feeling for me when he doesn't tell Maddie that David was at her door, playing games with David at dinner to cover up this fact. It's dishonest and maniulative...and I don't like it! Not to mention the dinner and breakfast in the den the next few days. Didn't Maddie have a dining table...or even a kitchen table??!! I digress....
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Post by jpen on Oct 21, 2009 18:00:48 GMT -5
6. Why is Maddie so insistent on keeping her date with Sam? Do you think she understand that David is jealous?
I agree with witness that Maddie feels like she's logged her time and deserves one night to "act irresponsibly" (if having a nice dinner with an old friend can be classified as irresponsible). I don't think, at this point, that she's made the decision to take things with Sam to the next level, but she's excited to be dressing up and going out with an attractive man.
And although I don't think that she fully realizes how painful all this is for David...she definitely knows that something is going on--hence her reaction after watching David sigh over Elaine Johnson: "Why do I feel like this is all for my benefit?" and her prodding to find out what's wrong.
I think all these things (and especially his vehemence when he shouts, "When was the last time I sent you on a stakeout alone so I could get--") replay in her mind when David shows up at the restaurant, which leads me to...
7a) Do you think Maddie knows what David wants to tell her?
I think she has an inkling...no more than that.
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Post by jpen on Oct 21, 2009 18:07:24 GMT -5
7b) Why does Sam bring up Maddie's fear of flying?
What gray said--Sammy's staking his claim, big time. Also agree with marple, that the whole conversation is a "silent fight."
witness said:
Totally agree. If he hadn't, though, I think it would have changed the whole complexion of the evening. In essence, David drowned all his most attractive qualities--the ones that would make Maddie choose him over Sam--in that oddly-colored (seriously!) wine. I think Maddie's embarrassment about and frustration with David's behavior made Sammy look awfully good in comparison...and certainly played a role in the "to bed or not to bed" decision.
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Post by jpen on Oct 21, 2009 18:28:22 GMT -5
9. At what point does Maddie decide she's going to sleep with Sam...and why?
I think it's sometime between standing outside the restaurant and getting home. By the time we see her on the bed, I think she's made her decision. She looks as though she's waiting, and she calls Sam up to her room, instead of going down to meet him. She's also gone to the trouble of putting on his "favorite" music--again, in her bedroom, instead of someplace more neutral.
As for the why...that's a complicated one, I think...gotta pick up some kids--back with more later.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 18:30:44 GMT -5
Unfortunately Dave is at a severe disadvantage here. His strengths are revealed over time by thoughts and words and deeds...not on a resume gray Maybe this is a guy/girl thing, but if I were Maddie I wouldn't think David was at a disadvantage at this point because his strengths were revealed over time by thoughts and words and deeds...not on a resume like Sam. She knows David very well now and knows there is something between them that neither can fess up to because of fear of putting everything on the table. Where David loses an advantage over Sam, in Maddie's eyes, is when he doesn't speak up when given the chance.He let's Sam do all of the talking even though Sam hasn't revealed his strengths over the last 3 years by thoughts, words or deeds! One of the reasons Maddie becomes so confused. Spot on, bees! It's true that Maddie knows David very well, but David also knows Maddie. I am reminded of Maddie's comment to Sam in MTTC, "You don't know me as well as you think you do". Maddie has changed since the good old days and while part of her thinks that she should choose the "safe" route with Sam, she knows that she now needs much more.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 18:51:57 GMT -5
1. This is the first of three episodes in which Moonlighting pokes fun at its own shortcomings (and critics thereof). Are these intros time-wasters for you, or integral parts of the episodes?
I don't think they are time-wasters, even though they probably were time-fillers to a certain extent. From a practical point of view, there were several weeks between some of the episodes, so it made sense to bring everyone back up to speed. Sam and Dave aired Feb. 10. Maddie's Turn to Cry - March 3rd and IACM - March 31. All in all, they were brilliant, fun and ground-breaking as only ML could be.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 19:04:16 GMT -5
2. David, in the opening scene: Is he really thinking that Maddie "got horizonty" with Mr. Anonymous?
I think he had to, considering Maddie's state of mind when she left the office. After all, it's not every day that a strange man who is half-dressed answers Maddie's door at 4:00 AM. As he sits behind his desk, he looks exhausted, devastated, crushed.
As an aside, I just love the change in emotion on David's face when Sam opens the door in BOB. The look in his eyes is amazing as he is staring at Sam, almost burning through him, trying to save face, telling him that it's not important. WOW.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 21, 2009 19:17:39 GMT -5
I too had some issues last night...computer and being challenged by what actually could fit in my suitcase versus what actually needed to GO into it. I love all the questions......thanks gals......and I promise to get to them tomorrow during my recovery from jet lag day~ diane Diane!! The Phillies are in YOUR town tonight...where are ya' goin'?! Surely you are wearing your favorite Phillies t-shirt in LA! How to get to the former Texas Ranger Padilla: Hit the ball (he hates that...) and don't let him hit you!
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 19:28:19 GMT -5
6. Why is Maddie so insistent on keeping her date with Sam? Do you think she understand that David is jealous?
I think Maddie is lonely and sees an opportunity to go out and have some fun with someone who is familiar/comfortable - someone she respects. She probably has some lingering feelings from the day before and enjoyed the excitement of dressing up, getting her hair done, etc. Her social life has been pretty lacking since her financial troubles began - she deserves a night out with an old friend. Does she realize that David is jealous? I don't think that the light bulb has gone off yet. Right now, she is just annoyed at him.
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 19:49:13 GMT -5
7. The Dinner Scene: Ah, the undercurrents...the assumptions...the interruptions! Have a ball with this one--here's just a few questions to get you started: a) Do you think Maddie knows what David wants to tell her? b) Why does Sam bring up Maddie's fear of flying? c) Imagine, for a moment, that David did not get drunk and make an idiot of himself. Would the outcome of the evening have been the same? a) Not at first, but obviously Maddie knows it's something important and personal, and hopefully will shed light on David's behavior that day. Toward the end of his 2nd attempt (thwarted again by Sham!), I think she has it figured out. But of course Maddie has to wait until the end of IACM to actually hear him say it. b) I think it's Sam's way of making it crystal clear to David what their history is and how well he knows (or thinks he knows) Maddie. I believe this leads into a story about Sam driving Maddie home to Chicago and how they had to spend two nights together? At this point David knows that they are not merely "old chums." He retorts with something to the effect of, "she's not afraid to fly with me, pal." c)Difficult to imagine David not getting drunk when it comes to seriously emotional upheavals in his relationship with Maddie. It's completely in character. I think it further cements Maddie's understanding of what David was trying to tell her. Great points, witness. I just wanted to add something regarding David's getting drunk. I'm actually surprised that David didn't get drunk after Sam opened the door at 4 AM. It wouldn't have been out of character for him to go on a binge and not show up the next morning. I guess his need to see Maddie ASAP far outweighed his need to numb his pain. So he returned to the office and caught a couple hours of sleep. He was waiting for her to come in. He wanted answers.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 21, 2009 19:57:21 GMT -5
a) Not at first, but obviously Maddie knows it's something important and personal, and hopefully will shed light on David's behavior that day. Toward the end of his 2nd attempt (thwarted again by Sham!), I think she has it figured out. But of course Maddie has to wait until the end of IACM to actually hear him say it. b) I think it's Sam's way of making it crystal clear to David what their history is and how well he knows (or thinks he knows) Maddie. I believe this leads into a story about Sam driving Maddie home to Chicago and how they had to spend two nights together? At this point David knows that they are not merely "old chums." He retorts with something to the effect of, "she's not afraid to fly with me, pal." c)Difficult to imagine David not getting drunk when it comes to seriously emotional upheavals in his relationship with Maddie. It's completely in character. I think it further cements Maddie's understanding of what David was trying to tell her. Great points, witness. I just wanted to add something regarding David's getting drunk. I'm actually surprised that David didn't get drunk after Sam opened the door at 4 AM. It wouldn't have been out of character for him to go on a binge and not show up the next morning. I guess his need to see Maddie ASAP far outweighed his need to numb his pain. So he returned to the office and caught a couple hours of sleep. He was waiting for her to come in. He wanted answers. I don't know... he probably had a nip or two in his office, don't you think?! But I agree, he was very serious about wanting to be there when Maddie arrived. As far as the flying thing, jpen and I were pm'ing earlier and she made reference to the book Diane mentioned , "Fear of Flying" by Erica Jong, back in the "Blonde on Blonde" Rewatch thread. Didn't put this together with this scene until now, but boy it would fit if the writers were trying to be cute!!
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Post by lin212 on Oct 21, 2009 20:07:44 GMT -5
9. At what point does Maddie decide she's going to sleep with Sam...and why?
Agree with jen on this one. I think Maddie decided on her way home. She obviously wanted Sam to join her in her bedroom - and something tells me that it wasn't because she wanted him to tell her a bedtime story and tuck her in.
Why? Maybe she just needed to be loved.
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Post by beesnbears on Oct 21, 2009 20:31:42 GMT -5
Just for fun: Sam & Dave were an R & B duo in the 60’s. (Sam Moore and David Prater) Also known as “The Dynamic Duo” or “Double Dynamite” Some of their popular hits were: Hold On, I’m Coming
When Something Is Wrong With My Baby
You Got Me Humming
You Don’t Know Like I Know
Soothe Me
Can’t You Find Another Way (Of Doing It)
You Don’t Know What You Mean to MeInteresting...to me anyway!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Oct 21, 2009 20:33:16 GMT -5
9. At what point does Maddie decide she's going to sleep with Sam...and why?I don't think she really decided until they dance in her bedroom. I think she thought about it, given her mood, but going to the Metropolis was a disaster for her and I think she put a little of those feeling on the back burner when Sam showed up. Meaning the "not know his name and be bad, really bad" part! Once she was in his arms though it was comfortable and familiar and somewhat safe. DING! Fries are done! You have captured my feelings exactly.
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