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Post by diane on Nov 3, 2009 23:42:33 GMT -5
Ok...guess everybody's had enough time, so I am going to jump in with my two cents.
1. At the beginning of the episode, what do you think is the state of mind of each of the characters......Maddie....David....Sam?
I think Maddie is pretty much a confused mess. Logically, she knows that Sam appears to be the better match for her. Yet she just snuck out in the middle of the night, in her jammies, to push David into a response...and oh what a response it was......then they solved a case, and had a blast...........and then reality sunk in and she had to head back to Sam.....without a clear idea what she was going to do.
David? Well, the dear man is snoozing...and sleeping the sleep of the contented. He has just gotten the thumbs up sign from the girl of his dreams, and in his usual uncomplicated fashion, he has gone to sleep thinking all's right with the world.
Sam? Sammy is just plain pissed. He wakes up in the middle of the night, and found Maddie gone. The nerve of her.......how dare she not know that he, famous astronaut and all around charmer, is the best thing that has ever happened to her? One feels that this will not be pretty, lovely cornflake breakfast not withstanding!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 3, 2009 23:43:49 GMT -5
The Charmings...That has got to be one of the WORST series titles ever! Bleh
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Post by diane on Nov 3, 2009 23:53:47 GMT -5
2. Does Sam believe Maddie's story about where she was the night before?
I really don't think he does believe her....or at least doesn't trust her. He continues to make her go on...uncomfortably, and even questions her. In the script, he also makes a snide comment about her outfit.
Of course, we know he has reason to feel insecure, but he would have been a much more sympathetic character had he just been upfront and discussed it, instead of pulling little pieces of info, and making Maddie feel guilty.
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Post by diane on Nov 3, 2009 23:58:57 GMT -5
3. I posted the original script scene at David's apartment. After reading this, there are a few questions:
~ Is Bruce's performance more effective the way it was aired or would you prefer it the way it was written?
I think Bruce's silence is stunning. if there was ever a question that the man could act, it was certainly proven in this scene, with 10 words or less.
~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam?
Still Sam...still a self centered rat. 'Nuff said.
~How does this written scene affect your understanding of David's reaction to Maddie the next morning?
answering this in question number 4.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:10:09 GMT -5
4. Why can't David express his feelings to Maddie during their confrontation?
After reading everybody else's responses, I think I am on my own with this one. Although our Dave has never been overt with his emotions, he usually can come up with the right words for a situation when necessary...and this situation smacks of necessity. But there are other things I think that are driving him.
I think David is affected hugely by Sam's visit. I think he listened carefully to Sam and weighed what Sam said. I think that the visit somewhat shattered David's confidence, and he began to truly question what he had to offer Maddie. He had no desire to make her unhappy....in fact, as I know we have discussed before, David is driven by happiness, especially Maddie's happiness. And I think he has convinced himself that Maddie truly wants Sam, and that he is not going to upset her any longer. It feels almost a self sacrificing decision to me.
But, as witnessed by the trashing of his office, it's not a decision that he is at peace with.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:12:24 GMT -5
5. Agnes and Bert...aren't they the cutest ever? Why is their relationship so uncomplicated?
They are just perfect......two misfits who fit together!
And thank goodness for David, they were there to wake him up.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:19:42 GMT -5
6. Give us your interpretation of "The barrage in the garage".
Wow......I've never before considered that the confrontation was especially violent, and I really don't believe it points out Sam as a future abuser. David started the fight. As I believe Gray said, clearly David was not in shape and was not a trained fighter, but Sam, as an astronaut, would have to be very physically fit.
David started the fight...Sam ended it...and I think all the punches thrown were from pent up frustration and spontaneously thrown. Sam tried to avoid the fight at first, and then tried to help David up after the punches were thrown. I do believe they both regretted the incident.
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Post by jpen on Nov 4, 2009 0:20:12 GMT -5
1. Why does Maddie interrupt David's attempt to explain why they should discuss the proposal? What do you think would have followed, "Why? Why? Maddie, I..." 1. This scene...I just love this scene! I think it's brilliantly written and acted, but I have to say, I've watched it probably a dozen times in the last few days (I know--get. a. life!), and I'm still not sure I know exactly what's going on in the minds of our dynamic duo. You have David, lying in wait to talk to Maddie, and Maddie fleeing (or trying to) from the conversation; then you have Maddie talking over him, and refusing to listen, while he tries to get in a word edgewise; then she turns the tables on him, and demands that he talk, and he clams up! It's symbolic, to me, of the one-step-forward, two-back progression of their relationship. These two have a tough time getting on the same page--not to mention, a tough time listening to each other--and this confrontation is no exception. Now, to answer your question, witness: I think Maddie cuts him off because: 1) she feels guilty about what happened the night before--guilty on both David's and Sam's behalf, and she doesn't want to have to own up to her behavior (in particular, she does not want to explain WHY she showed up at David's at 4am); and 2) she is still confused, still doesn't know what to do (and doesn't know "why she doesn't know")...and David's input will only increase her confusion. It's classic Maddie avoidance, so much so that her responses aren't even really logical: "It's none of your damn business!" (um, Maddie, honey, you kinda made it his business when you kissed him on the trunk) and "What difference will it make?" (if it makes no difference, why are you asking him to tell you how he feels?). As for David's response, I can imagine the following: "Why? Why? Maddie, I...care about you. I care about what happens to you." But here's what I would've liked to hear: "Why? Why? Maddie, I...think there's something here, and I think you came to me last night because you know it. You can't marry that guy, Maddie--he doesn't--" (David cuts himself off...and you can imagine the rest! ;D)
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:23:07 GMT -5
7. Regarding the deleted parts of the bar scene...do they make Maddie's dilemma any more understandable?
I really think these scenes let us all into what's going on in Maddie's head. Her character always gets a bad rap for there being no logic to what she does, and I think sometimes it's because we don't see dialogue like this. I also adored Agnes' little jabs and defenses of David.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:30:05 GMT -5
8. I can't really dissect the final scenes...let's just talk about them.
In life, I have a few scenes from tv or movies that can start my heart racing every single time I see them...and this is clearly one of the most effective of them. It feels new every time I see it.....the barbs are still as sharp, the slaps as startling, and the kisses as electric as the first time. It is shocking, and exhilarating, and I love it.
If I would change one thing, it would be the line about David not forcing himself on Maddie -- that has always been a ridiculous line to me, as we know that would never even be a possibility. I know it's a device to get him to walk out of the room while still saving face...but it's an ugly image.
Can anybody think of something to replace it?
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 4, 2009 0:30:11 GMT -5
1. At the beginning of the episode, what do you think is the state of mind of each of the characters......Maddie....David....Sam? Maddie is in a state of guilt; both Dave and Sam are feeling betrayed by their someone in common. Also, Dave is feeling rather chilly from that bucket of ice water Sam has dumped over his head. 2. Does Sam believe Maddie's story about where she was the night before? Partly, maybe. We all know that Maddie "can't" lie. Well she can, in a way, as long as she's not looking at the person while doing it; which is, of course, a dead give away. Sam even asks, "Case?" as if to say, "Are ya kidding me?" Plus, the phone ringing in the middle of the night and him being none the wiser? Please. This level of concealment and deception demonstrates already which direction Maddie's heart is leaning. After all, she only concealed Sam's proposal from David because she wanted to determine his true feelings without knowledge of that pertinent information.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:33:28 GMT -5
9. Bruce has remarked in an interview that during the final bed scene, David says, "I love you, Maddie." Big question.......can you see it? Does it make a difference to you?
I see....I adore it......and it matters hugely. Even though we are reassured by the reference in "Heiress" that it did indeed happen, it's nice to see it, and know that David and Maddie finally put words to their feelings.
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:34:41 GMT -5
10. What's your reaction every time you hear "Be My Baby"? (Do not include the current horrid use in Cialis commericals!!!)
Not sure I can express it here......this is a PG website, after all!!
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Post by jpen on Nov 4, 2009 0:44:34 GMT -5
If I would change one thing, it would be the line about David not forcing himself on Maddie -- that has always been a ridiculous line to me, as we know that would never even be a possibility. I know it's a device to get him to walk out of the room while still saving face...but it's an ugly image. Can anybody think of something to replace it? Completely agree--that line jars me every time (in contrast to his previous line "Here I come"...which makes me a little swoony). As for a replacement...how 'bout: Maddie: Get back! David (waits a beat,looking her up and down): Don't tear your toga, Blondie...I'm just leavin'. ;D
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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:44:37 GMT -5
I have a question regarding the Final Facedown: how do you feel about the two slaps?
I think the slaps are great......although they were certainly controversial when the episode originally aired.
I kind of think that the slaps were Maddie's "barrage in the garage" so to speak. The guys had their chance to work their frustrations out during their tussle......I'm thinking she still had some frustrations to get rid of.
I got tired of typing, but the stage directions for the slaps and kisses in the living room show an anger on Maddie's part......and then some real resistance to the kiss, with David being more of the aggressor. (I'll post it if anybody wants to see it). I am really glad, however, that they strayed from that and made it more of a cooperative effort....
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