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Post by diane on Nov 4, 2009 0:59:25 GMT -5
I have to say, as much as I love this story, I do get frustrated that Maddie never gets to see (as far as we know) the "real" Sam. Jen, I have always felt this way. That's what prompted me to write "Sam the Sham" for the 7th season of Virtual....I really felt Sam deserved an unhappy ending!!!
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Post by jpen on Nov 4, 2009 1:01:11 GMT -5
I got tired of typing, but the stage directions for the slaps and kisses in the living room show an anger on Maddie's part......and then some real resistance to the kiss, with David being more of the aggressor. (I'll post it if anybody wants to see it). I am really glad, however, that they strayed from that and made it more of a cooperative effort.... diane--I think you posted these already, under the "How Did They Get Back Upstairs" thread: moonlighting.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=curious&action=display&thread=688&page=1#8763You may have to scroll down a bit... Bless you, Jen......anybody who wants those stage directions, please check this thread.
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Post by jpen on Nov 4, 2009 1:07:50 GMT -5
I have to say, as much as I love this story, I do get frustrated that Maddie never gets to see (as far as we know) the "real" Sam. Jen, I have always felt this way. That's what prompted me to write "Sam the Sham" for the 7th season of Virtual....I really felt Sam deserved an unhappy ending!!! And a fine "unhappy ending" you gave him, too!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 4, 2009 1:12:27 GMT -5
3. I posted the original script scene at David's apartment. After reading this, there are a few questions: ~ Is Bruce's performance more effective the way it was aired or would you prefer it the way it was written? ~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam? ~How does this written scene affect your understanding of David's reaction to Maddie the next morning? ~I believe the aired version was more effective and further showcased Bruce's instincts as an actor. As we all know, Bruce wanted David not to say a word (or VERY little) so as to appear stronger than Sam. This comes across, but so does the impression that Sam's words have hit home to a certain degree, matching the self-doubt that plagues David in his relationship with Maddie. ~This scene, as written or as aired, completely changed my opinion of Sam. Unlike the rest of you, I did not feel utter disdain for Sam until this episode. Throughout the arc thus far I saw him as a reasonably good guy (gasp!), relatively harmless ( ), subtle manipulations notwithstanding. The lighting in this scene says it all, half of Sam's face cast in darkness revealing the dichotomy of his character. And the line that angers me most is: "You following me so far?" implying that Dave is a complete moron. Grrrr. ~It helps me understand why David feels so betrayed by Maddie. Judging from the trunk scene, the chase, "bowling for brunettes" and watching the sun come up together, David thinks they are on the same page and Sam is no longer a threat. That is, until Dave finds Sam hovering like a vulture, on his turf, full of condescending bluster. Sam basically challenges Dave to a duel when he says in the written version, "And if it isn't [obvious]...it will be." Because Maddie was not forthcoming (for her own understandable reasons) about Sam's proposal, Dave is left completely blindsided, as if Sam has already dealt the first punch.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 1:55:02 GMT -5
Thanks, but I am convinced that if Cybill ever DID lurk on this forum, my avatars would creep her right out of here! Good thing I didn't mention it to her then, eh? (I actually considered it because I was explaining to her what an avatar is. Phew!) Witness all I can say is OH MY GOD!!!!! You met Cybill..... **screams while running through my house** WOW, I'm so happy like I was there...Wow!!! Congrats to you~
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 2:15:01 GMT -5
I have just finished an almost 8 hour conference call and have received a second wind because of 3 great surprises...Gray's avatar, Witness meeting Cybill and Diane's questions! Late to the party but still honored to be amongst the 'essed, here I go~ 1. At the beginning of the episode, what do you think is the state of mind of each of the characters......Maddie....David....Sam? I think Maddie's state of mind is more relaxed with a hinge of anxiety about letting her good friend down easy. Maddie was open for anything at this point as far as David is concerned but she is definitely feeling the bite of leaving Sam all night at her house. Sam is nervous yet attempting to keep his "good guy" persona going as not to completely loose Maddie's attention due to his displaying a sore attitude. David I think is looking up until the visit, as now he again is faced with uncertainty of having Maddie's affections. 2. Does Sam believe Maddie's story about where she was the night before? Not a word, LOL...and I love it! Although there was great truth to her story, Sam knows that a call had not come in and therefore he knows Maddie is hiding the real reason for her departure. 3. I posted the original script scene at David's apartment. After reading this, there are a few questions: ~ Is Bruce's performance more effective the way it was aired or would you prefer it the way it was written? ~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam? ~How does this written scene affect your understanding of David's reaction to Maddie the next morning? more coming...... I believe that Bruce's performance is more effective, his silence says volumes about his confidence and basically makes Sam look like a total idiot for attempting a confrontation in David's domain. The scene as written really doesn't sway my position on Sam at all, he is a weasel from beginning to the end in my book. The written scene does add a bit more fuel to the fire in regards to David's simmering about the spaceman's visit to his home and divulging information that Maddie had not mentioned in their time together earlier that morning.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 2:37:40 GMT -5
4. Why can't David express his feelings to Maddie during their confrontation? David simply is at a lose for words because he feels like he & Maddie have already discussed this with their non-discussion on the trunk. At this point David is weary of the situation and doesn't understand Maddie's need to talk about every single thing all of the time; he is dependent on their chemistry as the bond that should allow Maddie to know that his love for her is true and is evident. Mere words can't describe David's love for Maddie, his actions over the last 2 1/2 years should have demonstrated his feelings. 6. Give us your interpretation of "The barrage in the garage". Oh I can't wait to read Gray's answer to this one David and Sam's activities in the garage resemble that of war, both attempting to protect their hearts and preserve what they have left of their pride. Many great wars have been fought over the love of a Queen; David and Sam's "barrage in the garage" is no exception. 9. Bruce has remarked in an interview that during the final bed scene, David says, "I love you, Maddie." Big question.......can you see it? Does it make a difference to you? Honestly to me all of the hype over "Did he or didn't he?" just makes me feel like many viewers had become a sort of "Maddie" personality. I have always seen David's love for Maddie and as Bruce has said in a few interviews, David loved Maddie from the moment he laid eyes on her. 10. What's your reaction every time you hear "Be My Baby"? (Do not include the current horrid use in Cialis commericals!!!) When I read the insert to this question, I laughed so loudly that my daughter came out of her room with a mean mug that only made me laugh more. ;D When I hear this song, it takes me to that faithful day when I was way too young to be so excited about two people sleeping together! I have loved this song ever since and love it even more now that I know what the words truly relay. Thank you again Diane for the questions, they are great!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 2:44:45 GMT -5
6. Give us your interpretation of "The barrage in the garage".David takes the first swing out of frustration, but did he swing for the kill? His look after Sam pelts him is one of disbelief. Shocked that a guy of that stature could hit so damn hard and that Maddie would end up with someone who could be so physically abusive. And that look Bruce gives conveys David's confusion since the whole thing started in "Blonde on Blonde". Yeah, I know Dave threw the first punch, but he didn't proceed to throw him into a wall and incapacitate him. Not saying Sam should have just stood there, but now that I've read the written version of the Sam/Dave scene in Dave's apt where he pushes him back on the bed, it makes me think there is this other side to Sam that Maddie just doesn't know!! And she wouldn't like it either... Double whoa! I never projected Sam into the future, but he could EASILY turn into a violent dude at home. Yeah, this was a response to Dave's punch, but he put a real hurtin' on our hero. I could see where maybe Maddie ticks him off or one of the kids goes off the reservation and that violent streak comes out. Maybe not all the time, but the fuse can obviously be lit. Good, but scary, point. Yeah, he's scum waiting to happen!!!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 2:46:16 GMT -5
Hot hot hot, gray...both of 'em! ;D Thanks, but I am convinced that if Cybill ever DID lurk on this forum, my avatars would creep her right out of here! Oh I think she would be totally honored Gray~
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Post by sinceifell4u on Nov 4, 2009 2:51:58 GMT -5
~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam? From the moment Sam doesn't 'fess up to having met David at the door, I didn't trust him (actually, I didn't trust him at the door either--who answers the door half-dressed when they're a guest in someone's home). So this version completely supports my opinion of him, and only makes it more blatant that he's not as concerned with what Maddie "wants" or "needs" as he is with winning. Sam the Sham indeed! Sam the Sham IN deed is right; answering the door half dressed as a guest in someone's home is like a burglar taking the time to make a sandwich! (As stated before "tempestuous disdain" lol)
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 4, 2009 3:37:29 GMT -5
4. Why can't David express his feelings to Maddie during their confrontation? Because when he initiates a calm, rational discussion with her about the situation, she immediately shuts him down and informs him it's a moot point. Dave even hurtfully replies, "I can't believe you're saying this!" How does he express himself to the person he loves most in this world when she has just told him his opinion/feelings don't matter? Maddie, give the guy some credit: he's trying to reach out to you! So pick up the damn phone. 5. Agnes and Bert...aren't they the cutest ever? Why is their relationship so uncomplicated? I think mostly because they're very much alike. Opposites attract, as we all know, but they can make a relationship awfully fiery, tempestuous, and not at all simple. Also, Agnes and Bert are not afraid to let their guards down.
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Post by marple on Nov 4, 2009 4:17:07 GMT -5
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Post by marple on Nov 4, 2009 4:20:34 GMT -5
1. At the beginning of the episode, what do you think is the state of mind of each of the characters......Maddie....David....Sam?
I think Maddie feels guilty to Sam, and also a little preoccupied with all the events she has gone through with Davidc She finds herself feeling better being with David, but gets more confused when Sam shows his persona; an gunderstandinghand gcaringhman.
I think before Sam shows up, David is confident, feeling much better than he was in the previous day.
Sam is very nervous now and is hurt, angry, obviously suspects Maddie and David.
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Post by marple on Nov 4, 2009 4:28:14 GMT -5
3. I posted the original script scene at David's apartment. After reading this, there are a few questions: ~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam? I felt Sam looked ugly in this scene, there is no longer his gnice manh image. Sam finally revealed his true self, cold, conceited and self-centered. His statement was very spiteful and his attitude looking down David was very arrogant. No wonder he measures human, life and happiness in term of money or status. In the script I think he even puts his hypocrite mask off when he says gcif you really care, don't care about herch And agree with Jpen, Maddie should have known grealh Sam.
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Post by missaddy on Nov 4, 2009 8:38:36 GMT -5
As this is my first attempt to write anything rational in the rewatching threads I'll allow myself to write a little foreword before trying to answer the questions. Firstly - gray I absolutely adore your avatar! ;D Secondly - I hope all of you don't mind me being several hours late to the party. Living in different time zone doesn't help to be in touch with the only people who understand "my weird obsession with this old tv show" as my mum called it Thirdly - "I am curious.. Maddie" is the only episode from seasons 3-5 which I've seen more than once so I may have a few memory holes when it comes to these eps. I love them for finally leading to what we've been waiting for a few years of watching the show (for me the more important than the love scene itself was that they finally admitted their feelings for each other.) But then, there's the way the screenwriters introduced the character of Sam. I always thought it was kind of forced and weird how he just showed up and he and Maddie were together like their last meeting didn't happen x years ago. (How much time had passed since they last saw each other anyway?) Next we have Sam's proposal. I know he and Maddie knew each other for years, but remembering D&M's argument about spontaneity I though it was a little bit *too* spotaneous of Maddie to seriously consider marrying a guy she doesn't really know anymore(Yeah, Walter, I know. But that's another issue I am sure someday I'll write another essay about. ;D).People change and she should've known it best as she was a walking example of that. Ok, so I can fially get to the questions. ~ Is Bruce's performance more effective the way it was aired or would you prefer it the way it was written? Everytime I watch this scene I almost yell at the screen that Dave should do something, say something. But he doesn't and that's what makes this scene so powerful and moving. ~Does the scene as written change or support your original opinion about Sam? It's kind of weird because I don't really have a confident opinion about Sam. I mean he has this obsession with marriage(or maybe I'm just reading to much fanfiction ;D) and I don't think he cared about Maddie as much as about finding himself a wife but then I'm not sure if he really belived that Dave would hurt Maddie sooner or later or if he just wanted to win Maddie and show David his place. ~What's your reaction every time you hear "Be My Baby"? I want to slap the nearest standing man twice and then do a little glass breaking on the floor No but seriously, I just grin like crazy Ok, my history paper waits for me so I'll peep here when I'll finish it.
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