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Post by beesnbears on Nov 10, 2009 19:48:28 GMT -5
This Rewatching thread is proudly sponsored by The Agnes Dipesto Company of Rhymes: After our discussion Stay tuned for a bit As jpen’s been busy Her pen never quits. What could have happened If there’d been no knock And the Blue Moon door Stayed shut with the lock? Or what would have happened If there’d been no phone And David and Maddie Were left all alone? She’ll let us all know On this one occasion What could have happened With a little persuasion. And after you’ve read it And you like it…or not Please leave her a note She’ll thank you a lot! The questions tonight will come in two parts. I get to go first...because jpen is a tough act to follow!! But seriously her q's are great great and will come later. So here are some to get you started: 1. In relation to the Kendall case, what do you believe are the “facts” that Maddie is struggling with in regards to her new relationship with David? 2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie? 3. Do you think Maddie needs to hear more from David than those three little words he supposedly said? If so, what? 4. Why does Maddie give in to her feelings of “doing what they did” at the very end? Is it really a pact Maddie wants? Okay, so don your Ray Bans and have some fine fun!
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Post by jpen on Nov 10, 2009 20:10:57 GMT -5
Hi all! Not trying to overwhelm you with questions, but turns out I've got to skedaddle for awhile...have fun! First of all, I'm gonna have to ask for your indulgence. This episode contains not one, but two, significant literary allusions, and my inner English major got all geeked out and had to do some research. As Cindy pointed out in a great post ( moonlighting.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=heiress&action=display&thread=697&page=1#8840), the title "To Heiress Human" is both a reference to the 1949 Olivia de Haviland film "The Heiress" (which in turn was based on Washington Square, a Henry James novella), and a pun the famous line, "To err is human, to forgive divine," from Alexander Pope's "Essay on Criticism." 5. The setup of the Kendall case initially follows the storyline of "The Heiress" quite closely: Catherine Sloper, the plain, quiet daughter of a wealthy doctor, falls in love with a poor young man, Morris Townsend. The father, suspecting the man's motives, tells Catherine she will be disinherited if she marries Morris; Catherine plans to elope with him anyway, but tells Morris beforehand about her father's threat. On the appointed night, Catherine packs her bag and waits in vain for her lover, who never comes. A few years later, the father dies, leaving Catherine his fortune...and then Morris reappears, begging her forgiveness. Catherine literally shuts him out in the cold. When her aunt asks her how she can be so cruel to a man she once loved, Catherine replies, "I have been taught by masters." Why this case for this episode? And what do you think is the significance of the twist in Moonlighting's version: that Robert genuinely loves Margaret? 6. Pope's "Essay" is actually a long poem, written in heroic couplets, that is a kind of mini-advice manual for prospective literary critics. He says that bad criticism is worse, and more prevalent, than bad poetry: "Ten censure wrong for one who Writes amiss." a) With reference to the episode title line...who is doing the erring? Who does (or should) forgive? b) The poem also features the following well-known lines: "A little Learning is a dangerous Thing" and "For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread" What connection, if any, do you think these lines have to David and Maddie's situation? Phew...thanks! ;D Now on to the "normal" questions... 7. As they wake up, Maddie asks David, "How are we gonna do this?" What does she mean? How do you think David is feeling in this scene? 8. In David's apartment, Maddie tells him twice that she's not trying to hurt him, and yet she says some hurtful things. What is driving her here? 9. At the end of the episode, David says to Maddie, "Y'know, I really think it's OK that those two kids ride off into the sunset together. But you and me...we're different." Do you think he really believes this?
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Post by lin212 on Nov 10, 2009 20:12:25 GMT -5
1. In relation to the Kendall case, what do you believe are the “facts” that Maddie is struggling with in regards to her new relationship with David?
Ah, the wealthy heiress and the struggling bartender - how can they be right for each other? This is the classic "mismatched" pair and Maddie is battling the same inner feelings with regard to David. Even though she loves him, she doesn't want anyone to know of their "relationship". She still can't seem to see herself paired with David. He's all wrong for her, right?
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Post by lin212 on Nov 10, 2009 20:34:13 GMT -5
2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie?
I think that for David, love is the driving force. It's all that matters, everything else can be worked out. When telling Maddie about his conversation with Robert, he says that nothing can change the fact that Robert loves Margaret. Even his anecdote about Romeo and Juliet, the epitome of star-crossed lovers, reveals his feelings about two people belonging together. If two people truly love each other, there really are no obstacles that can't be overcome.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 20:41:07 GMT -5
1. In relation to the Kendall case, what do you believe are the “facts” that Maddie is struggling with in regards to her new relationship with David?
Maddie is thinking of how the barkeep fits into the standard mold of who should marry a girl of such wealth. As such it translates into a battle between hearts and mind. With David: How will it fit in with her long held beliefs of who she thought she "should" marry? What will be the impact on the business? How will her parents react? What about her friends and acquaintences...will they ridicule Maddie behind her back for marrying beneath her "station"? Will David act inappropriately at some critical juncture that would open her ability to make decisions to question?
2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie?
That they know each other, love each other and have stupendous sack time. All else is secondary.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 20:47:28 GMT -5
3. Do you think Maddie needs to hear more from David than those three little words he supposedly said? If so, what?
This drives me insane. She badgered him to the ends of the earth to say I Love You. Even though he thought it was redundant, he did it, and hit paydirt.
Now she wants more. I'm not sure what, but she is back into control mode. She wants to have the remote, to control the horizontal and the vertical. I think she wants David to say those words that ends every argument....Yes, Dear.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 10, 2009 20:51:11 GMT -5
;D ;D Damn Gray...give a lady a little warning!! At first glance that avatar looks too close to real thing!! Better hang on that pillow of yours... Humerous...perceptive...deceptive...and brave!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 20:52:54 GMT -5
4. Why does Maddie give in to her feelings of “doing what they did” at the very end? Is it really a pact Maddie wants?
I think the issue here is that Maddie is conflicted between her inner self and her outward appearance to others, which she values highly. People who know David, and we're mostly talking about the Wobblies here, know him to be very astute when it comes to the ladies. Whether this is fact or fiction does not matter as they perceive it to be true.
If Maddie were to let her affections, her affair with David to become public knowledge, then (I believe) she feels they would think less of her. They would think that the ice princess was brought down from her perch by the basest of instincts. Maddie wants it both ways. She wants David to be her boy toy on the side with no one the wiser. He doesn't want to have any part of the charade, thus the issue for Maddie.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 20:54:25 GMT -5
;D ;D Damn Gray...give a lady a little warning!! At first glance that avatar looks too close to real thing!! Better hang on that pillow of yours... Humerous...perceptive...deceptive...and brave! I didn't expect that screen capture to be so...vivid, but when it came out so well I just HAD to use it! Heh heh.
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Post by beesnbears on Nov 10, 2009 20:59:11 GMT -5
3. Do you think Maddie needs to hear more from David than those three little words he supposedly said? If so, what? This drives me insane. She badgered him to the ends of the earth to say I Love You. Even though he thought it was redundant, he did it, and hit paydirt. Now she wants more. I'm not sure what, but she is back into control mode. She wants to have the remote, to control the horizontal and the verticle. I think she wants David to say those words that ends every argument....Yes, Dear. I was waiting for the "Control Button" to get pushed!! Knew it would be our favorite guy pal here!! I agree completely. And I think this idea pairs with what Mr. Kendall tells Maddie: "Controlled realities is what life is about. Happiness follows". Not an exact quote, but this goes with Maddie saying she has to "consider, contemplate" before she gives herself to just anybody.
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Post by lin212 on Nov 10, 2009 20:59:31 GMT -5
gray, I just love it. You are like no other...David has quite a formidable competitor.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 21:00:54 GMT -5
5. Why this case for this episode? And what do you think is the significance of the twist in Moonlighting's version: that Robert genuinely loves Margaret?
I think the parallel between Robert/Margaret and David/Maddie are similar not so much for wealth (although we know that Maddie would still reap quite an inheritance) but more one of station. Would Margaret's father have approved of Robert if he was of better breeding but the same economic situation? I think he would have been more accepting of that circumstance than if Robert was well off, but a less than refined character.
I think the twist is to get the Robert/Margaret thread to better line up with David/Maddie. Neither had anything to do with money...it was all about the heart.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 21:07:27 GMT -5
9. At the end of the episode, David says to Maddie, "Y'know, I really think it's OK that those two kids ride off into the sunset together. But you and me...we're different." Do you think he really believes this?
Oh, he knows their dynamic is like no other one out there. David just wants to be part of Maddie's life and be there no matter where it takes them. Does he want the house in the suburbs with the white picket fence? I don't think that is important. He just wants an equal partner. It is the zing that keeps them on their toes..he doesn't want to lose that.
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Post by lin212 on Nov 10, 2009 21:09:01 GMT -5
3. Do you think Maddie needs to hear more from David than those three little words he supposedly said? If so, what?
At this point, I don't think Maddie needs to hear more from David. She knows how he feels. Maddie's problem is Maddie and David knows it. That's why he doesn't even bother to convince her otherwise. He knows that arguing with her will get him nowhere. So, our clever hero pretends to go along with the pact, playing Maddie all the while. His talk about respecting her feelings and agreeing that they are all wrong for each other work like a charm. Yes, he definitely knows his lady.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 10, 2009 21:24:02 GMT -5
8. In David's apartment, Maddie tells him twice that she's not trying to hurt him, and yet she says some hurtful things. What is driving her here?
I think she is trying to assert her superiority in the relationship, as it were. That David is just going to have to acquiesce to her every whim, desire or demand, if he wants any shot at maintaining anything at all.
What do you think of the way Dave is holding the sheet in this scene when Maddie comes out of the bathroom? Classic, eh?
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