witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 10, 2009 23:34:01 GMT -5
1. In relation to the Kendall case, what do you believe are the “facts” that Maddie is struggling with in regards to her new relationship with David? Like Margaret, Maddie never imagined that she'd fall head over heels for a guy like David, uncultured, ill-bred, uneducated. How can she reconcile her feelings for him with her feelings about being with someone who is a better match for her refined upbringing and tastes? This brings to mind Maddie's description of her previous night's date in "Symphony in Knocked Flat." When she describes the guy to David as, "PhLawyer, MBA, Mr. Success" she sounds decidedly bored. But when she and David set up the fine/fun exchange, she sounds a great deal more excited at the prospect of seeing David rise to the challenge, in a tuxedo, no less. Maddie often suffers from amnesia when it comes to the FACTS of David's tremendous efforts to protect and care for her over the past 2 1/2 years. Those far outweigh the FACTS that she discovers about Robert Murphy ("Bartender"-laden resume, multiple marriages) and the FACTS of David's "rugged exterior." Margaret has managed to ignore Robert's price tag; Maddie finds it far more difficult to do the same for David. 2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie? First and foremost, he loves her. Second, Maddie may be a bit reticent, hesitant, and reluctant (all those "ant/ent" words) to dive head first into these uncharted waters; she will need him to guide her and make her feel secure. Last but not least, the fact that they've jumped over many hurdles in the past 2 1/2 years tells him there are no challenges on the horizon they can't tackle head on.
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Post by diane on Nov 10, 2009 23:46:59 GMT -5
I'm going to take my time with the script stuff....cause there is a lot, and also because I don't want to distract from the actual aired version.
thought I would share the description of the bedroom at the beginning of the episode:
INT. MADDIE"S BEDROOM -- DAVID AND MADDIE
...asleep....and NAKED.....under a sheet...and what we can see of the bedding and the rest of the room looks as if it awaits a claims adjuster: a whirlwind of passion swept through here last night...clothes, pillows, blankets tossed hither and yon....
MOVE IN ON MADDIE
...asleep on David's shoulder...and suddenly her EYES OPEN...it's as if she's been lying there thinking... planning....for several minutes...and then, trying to keep David from waking, MADDIE slowly tries to inch out of his lovelock....with the painstaking deliberateness of someone trying to diffuse a live bomb....MADDIE gingerly lifts DAVID'S ARM from her...then she burrows and slides slowly from him...finally, putting DAVID'S ARM BACK DOWN ...and satisfied that she hasn't disturbed him, she sighs, then TURNS OVER...and is about to get out of bed when.....
DAVID: Maddie, you asleep?
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 0:01:41 GMT -5
with the painstaking deliberateness of someone trying to diffuse a live bomb....MADDIE gingerly lifts DAVID'S ARM from her.
LOL--that's exactly how she looks when she picks his arm up--with only two fingers...as though she's trying to touch him as little as possible!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 11, 2009 0:02:05 GMT -5
I'm going to take my time with the script stuff....cause there is a lot, and also because I don't want to distract from the actual aired version. thought I would share the description of the bedroom at the beginning of the episode: INT. MADDIE"S BEDROOM -- DAVID AND MADDIE ...asleep....and NAKED.....under a sheet...and what we can see of the bedding and the rest of the room looks as if it awaits a claims adjuster: a whirlwind of passion swept through here last night...clothes, pillows, blankets tossed hither and yon.... MOVE IN ON MADDIE ...asleep on David's shoulder...and suddenly her EYES OPEN...it's as if she's been lying there thinking... planning....for several minutes...and then, trying to keep David from waking, MADDIE slowly tries to inch out of his lovelock....with the painstaking deliberateness of someone trying to diffuse a live bomb....MADDIE gingerly lifts DAVID'S ARM from her...then she burrows and slides slowly from him...finally, putting DAVID'S ARM BACK DOWN ...and satisfied that she hasn't disturbed him, she sighs, then TURNS OVER...and is about to get out of bed when..... DAVID: Maddie, you asleep? Love the juicy script stuff! thanks for posting this stuff Diane! Will get to the questions soon! Sorry i wasnt here again earlier gang ,would you all believe i'm taking frames off my bedroom walls at midnight, not enjoying it, kinda sad. I hope when this move is over i will be here on time!
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Post by rose35 on Nov 11, 2009 0:06:44 GMT -5
6. Pope's "Essay" is actually a long poem, written in heroic couplets, that is a kind of mini-advice manual for prospective literary critics. He says that bad criticism is worse, and more prevalent, than bad poetry: "Ten censure wrong for one who Writes amiss."
a) With reference to the episode title line...who is doing the erring? Who does (or should) forgive?
b) The poem also features the following well-known lines:
"A little Learning is a dangerous Thing"and "For Fools rush in where Angels fear to tread"I have always thought that the title was not so much about one or the other 'erring"...but that Maddie should give herself a break, and not be afraid to "err"....it will make her more human. I love the idea of the Fools Rush In reference.....although I think it is coincidental , the Johnny Mercer ballad, "Fools Rush In (where angels fear to tread) seems very apropos to this episode. Here are the lyrics: Fools rush in where angels fear to tread And so I come to you my love, my heart above my head
Though I see the danger there If there's a chance for me, then I don't care
Fools rush in where wise men never go But wise men never fall in love, so how are they to know
When we met, I felt my life begin So open up your heart and let this fool rush in Wow Diane you just had me thinking of my Dad now, he has sung this song! It's good lyrics too!
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 0:18:05 GMT -5
1. In relation to the Kendall case, what do you believe are the “facts” that Maddie is struggling with in regards to her new relationship with David?
I think Maddie is struggling with the fact that the "facts" don't seem to apply...on paper, she and David are all wrong for each other, according to her preconceived notion of the kind of man she's "supposed to be with." Of course, the Ideal Guy didn't butter her biscuit, while Mr. Wrong blew her away...emotionally as well as physically, I think.
By the same token, on paper, Robert looks like a con man, someone who would take a woman "for better or worse, but especially for better." But as David puts it so eloquently, the facts "don't mean a damn thing when it gets down to the yin and yang of why two people want to be together."
For Maddie, this conflict between the "facts" and the way she feels takes her out of her comfort zone...and the pact is one way for her to get back into it.
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 0:23:32 GMT -5
2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie?
For David, there's no conflict: Sam's gone, she loves him, he loves her, they spent an amazing night together...simple. For David, these underlying "facts" will sustain them, even if it takes awhile to get used to their new situation...as he tells Maddie, "We'll work it out."
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Post by rose35 on Nov 11, 2009 0:30:03 GMT -5
2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie?For David, there's no conflict: Sam's gone, she loves him, he loves her, they spent an amazing night together...end of story. For David, these underlying "facts" will sustain them, even if it takes awhile to get used to their new situation...as he tells Maddie, "We'll work it out." AHHHH the "We'll work it out" just kills me! He is so sincere, his hands on her arms like hes trying to pull her close and then Maddies "but i dont want to work it out" David looks like he was just slapped by her again ! UGH!
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Post by diane on Nov 11, 2009 0:40:02 GMT -5
Lots of script stuff still to come...but it's sleepytime on the right coast......will continue tomorrow.....'night!
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Post by jpen on Nov 11, 2009 0:44:03 GMT -5
2. What are the “facts” that David considers most important in his new relationship with Maddie?For David, there's no conflict: Sam's gone, she loves him, he loves her, they spent an amazing night together...end of story. For David, these underlying "facts" will sustain them, even if it takes awhile to get used to their new situation...as he tells Maddie, "We'll work it out." AHHHH the "We'll work it out" just kills me! He is so sincere, his hands on her arms like hes trying to pull her close and then Maddies "but i dont want to work it out" David looks like he was just slapped by her again ! UGH! Oh, I know...when he says, "What?" it just about does me in...but my favorite part of this scene is him sitting on the corner of her desk, studying her face after she says, "If you really meant it, you'll make this pact." You can see that he's angry at first, then something shifts in his expression--he's trying to figure her out...I just love that look!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Nov 11, 2009 3:00:56 GMT -5
3. Do you think Maddie needs to hear more from David than those three little words he supposedly said? If so, what? I think Maddie needs to know that just because they've shared a night of unbridled passion, David hasn't forgotten who she is; that she will have concerns about what their night together means, whether it was the right decision, how their new status will carry over to the workplace. Maddie's mind is reeling, and she needs it put at ease. They were on the same page physically the night before ; she needs to know that's the case emotionally as well. David doesn't need to speak more words, but some emotional support will provide evidence of the three little ones. 4. Why does Maddie give in to her feelings of “doing what they did” at the very end? Is it really a pact Maddie wants? It seems Maddie appreciates David's efforts toward understanding her inner struggle. He's tried his best to accept and support the pact, and to get on the same page with her, even though she's been hopping all through the book (I'm reminded of a Sex and the City episode in which Carrie narrates: "That's the thing about needs. Sometimes when you get them met, you don't need them anymore"). Furthermore, Maddie couldn't resist David's Dr. Seuss speak and the way he looks at her afterward. So damn cute! Pact broken. Sidebar: I could have lived without the gazillion "dids" and "dos", or the numerous "happys" in the opening office dialogue. I know it's typical of ML, but a bit overdone IMHO.
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Post by diane on Nov 11, 2009 8:18:13 GMT -5
Sidebar: I could have lived without the gazillion "dids" and "dos", or the numerous "happys" in the opening office dialogue. I know it's typical of ML, but a bit overdone IMHO. This is an area in which I really can't be on the same page with you, witness. I think the happiness conversations are very intentional, and as you will see, there are a few more instances in the original script. As a student of this show for so many years, my conclusion is that David's driving force is happiness. He lives his life in search of happiness, and it motivates him. He talk about it a lot. His attitude, his singing and dancing, his jokes, his fun.....all designed to assist in his ongoing quest for happiness. And, although it enhances his life also, I have to say it is quite selfless. He is most concerned about Maddie's happiness, and teaching her to find her way towards it. (In fact, many of the issues of season 4 come from David being too self sacrificing and restrained regarding the issues of Maddie finding her own way to happiness.) Since we have known David, the morning after the night before is the very pinnacle of his own happiness, and I think it is very appropriate that he wants Maddie to be happy and to be able to express it. And it hurts him deeply that she can't. For me, after him spending two and a half years to get to this point, I would have thought it quite odd if happiness were not a major part of the conversation!!! (Whoa.....I used the word "happiness" way too many times myself....)
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Post by diane on Nov 11, 2009 8:22:06 GMT -5
Hey gang, sorry I gotta jump but I have to be in DC early tomorrow. I'll pop back on when I return. I leave you with this line a buddy of mine puts at the end of every email: If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read it in english, thank a veteran. Bless you all for putting up with me. Tony I'm going to start using that quote myself, Tony. Thanks to you and all those who have made our country brave and strong. Happy Veteran's Day!
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Post by diane on Nov 11, 2009 8:29:08 GMT -5
There are lots of missing lines found in the script......some obviously because of the censors. Here's an example of one:
MADDIE: Right now, I think I'd like you to just turn over that way.
DAVID: What for?
MADDIE: I want to take a shower.
DAVID (not understanding): Wow! I really did boink my brains out last night.
MADDIE: David, I have to get into the bathroom to take a shower. (and then) Understand?
ON DAVID
...finally understanding...and then...
DAVID: You don't want me to look? You've got nothing to be shy about.
~scene continues as aired
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Nov 11, 2009 8:30:04 GMT -5
Sidebar: I could have lived without the gazillion "dids" and "dos", or the numerous "happys" in the opening office dialogue. I know it's typical of ML, but a bit overdone IMHO. This is an area in which I really can't be on the same page with you, witness. I think the happiness conversations are very intentional, and as you will see, there are a few more instances in the original script. As a student of this show for so many years, my conclusion is that David's driving force is happiness. He lives his life in search of happiness, and it motivates him. He talk about it a lot. His attitude, his singing and dancing, his jokes, his fun.....all designed to assist in his ongoing quest for happiness. And, although it enhances his life also, I have to say it is quite selfless. He is most concerned about Maddie's happiness, and teaching her to find her way towards it. (In fact, many of the issues of season 4 come from David being too self sacrificing and restrained regarding the issues of Maddie finding her own way to happiness.) Since we have known David, the morning after the night before is the very pinnacle of his own happiness, and I think it is very appropriate that he wants Maddie to be happy and to be able to express it. And it hurts him deeply that she can't. For me, after him spending two and a half years to get to this point, I would have thought it quite odd if happiness were not a major part of the conversation!!! (Whoa.....I used the word "happiness" way too many times myself....) I don't want to pile on witness, but it is just so darned fun! I agree with Diane here. David is what pops into my head every time I hear the phrase "The Pursuit of Happiness". He knows that happiness is a journey, it isn't really an end state. It is an active verb, not a passive condition. Sometimes it works for him, sometimes it has consequences. In this case, boinking the Blue Moon girl SURELY qualifies as a happy event...it sure as heck would be for me...and deserves the accolades he gives it. I loved the office scene.
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