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Post by diane on Dec 8, 2009 22:19:15 GMT -5
For those that have a script, what is one thing that stands out the most that is different from what aired? Care to share for those that didn't have a chance to get their hands on one?
As Gray and I both mentioned, the script is fairly true to form....although he seems to be missing pages 14b and 15 in his copy. If anyone wants, I'd be happy to post them tomorrow.
The one highlight of this script for me is the wonderful stage directions and descriptions that show an amazing dedication to detail.
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 8, 2009 22:23:31 GMT -5
The one highlight of this script for me is the wonderful stage directions and descriptions that show an amazing dedication to detail. diane
I agree. I enjoy reading this script the most compared to others I have read.
This writing team was superb, weren't they?
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Dec 8, 2009 22:36:06 GMT -5
The one highlight of this script for me is the wonderful stage directions and descriptions that show an amazing dedication to detail. diane I agree. I enjoy reading this script the most compared to others I have read. This writing team was superb, weren't they? Hard to beat "The HUNGRIEST KISS in the history of television" ain't it?
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Post by diane on Dec 8, 2009 22:37:09 GMT -5
1. This episode is a sort of love letter to two different 40s film styles: the polished, MGM-style of Maddie's dream, and the gritter "film noir" look of David's. a) For anyone who caught this episode back in '85: what was your reaction?
One thing I do remember about the original airing was how huge it was to have Orson Welles do the intro. It was also bittersweet, as he passed away before the episode actually aired.
The innovation of the two styles of filming was heralded.....but bigger than that was that Bruce and Cybill.......as our characters who were not really our characters....kissed TWICE!!!
And of course, there was much commentary about Cybill's singing, especially her hair toss a la Rita Hayworth in Gilda.
b) Do you have a preference for either sequence?
If push came to shove, I'd have to choose David's because, as the sign above the window indicated, it was HOT. I also like the humor in his.
And I can't neglect the the details of them getting in and out of the sequences (Maddie's stereo and scratchy vinyl record...David's phone call from Maddie, and the buzzing dial tone) ...I just think they were incredibly clever.
c) How is Maddie's personality reflected in her dream, and David's in his?
Think I already did this one
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Post by diane on Dec 8, 2009 22:46:20 GMT -5
2. David accuses Maddie of appointing herself "guardian for her whole damn sex." Where do you think this comment is coming from? And do you see David doing the same thing?
David and Maddie at this point still don't know each other really well. Don't forget, they just shared an experience in Buenos Aires, where David flew down to "rescue" Maddie...who when it was all said and done, left him stranded there. So yes, I think at this point it is still some crazy boys vs. girls thing -- but it does make for some amazing banter!!!!
At this point in their relationship, they are still dealing in stereotypes....and as they move through this season, we see them taking baby steps away from their stereotypical ideas of each other........so they can come closer to seeing each other as they are......
Still..wouldn't it have been nice if they each could have seen the other as WE could see them??
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Dec 8, 2009 22:46:21 GMT -5
Another thing that caught me on the original airing was how Cybill's singing voice had matured over the years. I remember her singing in one of her earlier films that we showed at the theater I worked at in the mid 70's, but her range and tone were vastly superior by the time this episode came on.
A neighbor was at my apartment when the show aired and I could tell from the first note that it was indeed Cybill singing and not a Milli Vanilli lip synch. She didn't believe me at first saying "actresses can't sing...." but eventually I convinced her to pay attention and she finally agreed with me.
I hadn't thought about that in years! Good Luck Sue...wherever you are!
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Post by diane on Dec 8, 2009 22:53:20 GMT -5
3. Why is Maddie so furious at David calling her a sexist?
Wow, that would have been such a slap in the face to call a woman a sexist in the 80s. The battle for women's rights was still going on, and the term sexist would probably most closely relate in her mind to the term "male chauvinist pig".
Did the conclusion she jumped to readily make her a sexist? Quite probably....but surely she would never see it that way. She wouldn't even consider that a sexist wouldn't be male.
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Post by diane on Dec 8, 2009 23:00:48 GMT -5
I've got a question.......
There are quite a few things in this episode that I am truly surprised made it past the censors.....(can't believe gray hasn't mentioned the ice cube scenes...!)
Remembering this was 20 years ago, prime time Tuesday nights......is there anything that made it in that surprised you?
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 8, 2009 23:01:15 GMT -5
The one highlight of this script for me is the wonderful stage directions and descriptions that show an amazing dedication to detail. diane I agree. I enjoy reading this script the most compared to others I have read. This writing team was superb, weren't they? Hard to beat "The HUNGRIEST KISS in the history of television" ain't it? Yep!! H.O.T Hot!
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 8, 2009 23:04:37 GMT -5
I've got a question....... There are quite a few things in this episode that I am truly surprised made it past the censors.....(can't believe gray hasn't mentioned the ice cube scenes...!) Remembering this was 20 years ago, prime time Tuesday nights......is there anything that made it in that surprised you? Donuts and hotdogs!! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 8, 2009 23:10:32 GMT -5
Another thing that caught me on the original airing was how Cybill's singing voice had matured over the years. I remember her singing in one of her earlier films that we showed at the theater I worked at in the mid 70's, but her range and tone were vastly superior by the time this episode came on. A neighbor was at my apartment when the show aired and I could tell from the first note that it was indeed Cybill singing and not a Milli Vanilli lip synch. She didn't believe me at first saying "actresses can't sing...." but eventually I convinced her to pay attention and she finally agreed with me. I hadn't thought about that in years! Good Luck Sue...wherever you are! Speaking of Cybill singing, if you haven't heard Cybill's CD with Stan Getz or another one titled "Vanilla" you are missing out my friends!! These were done when she was very young. Amazon has them...check it out. Not sure about iTunes.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Dec 9, 2009 6:56:25 GMT -5
(can't believe gray hasn't mentioned the ice cube scenes...!) Sorry...I was too busy trying to look down the slip...
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 9, 2009 9:04:47 GMT -5
c) How is Maddie's personality reflected in her dream, and David's in his? This is really interesting to think about. Curious how in Maddie's dream she sees herself as a little on the conservative side, yet we've seen her and heard her say things that probably wouldn't lend to conservatism. Her dress is pretty but simple, same with her hair. But, she's torn between walking the wild side with a man like Zack and the nice safe man in Jerry. Sound familiar? David's dream, of course, has Rita-Maddie as more on the sexy side and reveals how he wants her, in every way! I for one love her hair and her dress in this sequence. But, he also dreams of her as how Maddie really is: confident, outspoken, not just sexy. In both cases, they dream the other as the instigator of killing Jerry, which I think is simply a way to solve the murder case in their minds. However, it's funny that in both cases, Zack is actually the one who to club Jerry with the clarinet. That in itself could reveal that Maddie feels David would do anything for her and that David would kill to be with her and die tryin'!!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
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Post by witness on Dec 12, 2009 22:59:30 GMT -5
c) How is Maddie's personality reflected in her dream, and David's in his? Maddie's soft, innocent, vulnerable side is portrayed by her Rita. Maddie and her version of Rita have been thrown off balance by David and her version of Zack. In her Rita, we see the same conflict between heart and head that we see from Maddie herself. David's macho arrogance masking some vulnerability is reflected in his Zack. His dream is our initial view into David's psyche, the way he has been betrayed by women for whom he has fallen hook, line, and sinker. 2. David accuses Maddie of appointing herself "guardian for her whole damn sex." Where do you think this comment is coming from? And do you see David doing the same thing? The comment arises from Maddie's declaration of the man's guilt based on no evidence whatsoever, only her viewpoint of men as aggressors, men as criminals. David, true to form, is playing the devil's advocate, pointing out that women can be just as morally ambiguous, even corrupt, as men. He's basically telling Maddie to step off her morally superior high horse and away from the gender stereotypes.
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
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Post by witness on Dec 13, 2009 2:11:28 GMT -5
3. Why is Maddie so furious at David calling her a sexist? Maddie? A sexist? That's madness! Of course she's furious. It's possibly the worst insult David could hurl at her. I have to echo gray's and diane's sentiments, that a woman being called a sexist was virtually unheard of at that time. But what's a battle-of-the-sexes-themed show without a fiery "You're a sexist!" exchange?
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