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Post by diane on Aug 3, 2010 18:48:14 GMT -5
Well, here we are discussing Perfetc, a seemingly typical 5th season episode.
Before I start, I want to interject some info that I got originally from one of the cast members. Perfetc was originally planned to be the season finale of season 5, when the show was anticipated to be going on to a sixth season. As I have been told (I don't own this script), the script numbering indicated this as the final episode. So, we would have ended the season with the idea of D&M going to Paris together. It appears that the cancellation of the series changed those plans.
Who knows how the evil trilogy was planned to be resolved originally...but in the light of discussing this episode, and where it ended up in the season, I think we might have some fun ideas and theories to toss around.
Here are a few Qs...please feel free to jump in and add some of your own.
1. How did you like the opening fight in the office? Is it classic Moonlighting? (I have a question about the music in this scene.....not an expert, but is the sequence used here from "An American in Paris"? Anybody? Buellar?)
2. Do people really look for fame as what they leave for their legacy? Do you find that David's motives in this episode ring true?
3. Is the name on David's bowling shirt really "Twinkle"? Anybody have a clue as to why?
4. Anybody else love this?
"Hell, Maddie, the only difference between this guy and every other clown who walks through that door is that we don't have to go through six talks in the car, two pair of shoes, a couple of sets of stunt doubles going through some big hokey elaborate chase just to find out that he IS the criminal."
Do you think that the writers may be making some commentary about season 5 here?
5. Curtis does another great turn here as the Monseigneur, maybe one of his best....love the blue plastic rosary beads around his neck. What is your all time favorite Bert scene?
6. What is your analysis of David and Maddie's relationship at this point? Are they resolving issues during the scene in the car, or just rehashing?
7. Rate the chase.........love it, hate it, or who cares?
Ok.....that'll keep us busy for now
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 3, 2010 19:32:47 GMT -5
Just got in! Rewatching and preparing avatar now. Will rejoin later this evening.
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Post by lin212 on Aug 3, 2010 19:42:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the Qs, diane, and the background on this particular episode. I definitely could see it as a season finale - those episodes that always left us with hope for tomorrow. Sigh....well, on to our discussion...
1. How did you like the opening fight in the office? Is it classic Moonlighting?
I have to admit that I did like the opening fight...classic Moonlighting....MacGillicuddy ticking off Viola, Bert boiling over and striking back. Then of course, all the other kids have to get in on the action....yes, classic, IMHO. The one piece that feels off to me is Maddie. Her anger is not the anger of the past. She is basically smiling throughout the whole thing. Is that intentional? Does she now find their antics humorous? In Season 2, she would have been blowing real steam at the unprofessionalism displayed in the office. So, has she mellowed and learned to appreciate the spontaneity or is Cybill just delivering the lines differently? All of which brings me to another point. I just find Maddie's facial expressions so very different in Season 5 than in all the other seasons...more of the "yuk, yuk, yuk" variety (sort of 3 stooges). I don't really like it.
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Post by beesnbears on Aug 3, 2010 19:44:27 GMT -5
I'm hopping in because my Texas Rangers are on at 9 Central and it will be a distraction! But, can I just say....How 'bout them Rangers!!! ...thanks for letting me say that...now everyone knock on some wood and say no jinx..... ;D
1. How did you like the opening fight in the office? Is it classic Moonlighting? (I have a question about the music in this scene.....not an expert, but is the sequence used here from "An American in Paris"? Anybody? Buellar?)
I love the fight scene. It cracks me up and something tells me when Cybill comes in she is trying her best to stay in character and not so the same. Reminds me of when we had substitutes at school and she leaves the room.....hehe!
And yes, I'm almost certain the music is "An American in Paris" during this.
How about the tune where Maddie is handing out stacks of files? Both great choices!
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Post by jpen on Aug 3, 2010 19:51:51 GMT -5
Thanks for the Qs, diane, and the background on this particular episode. I definitely could see it as a season finale - those episodes that always left us with hope for tomorrow. Sigh....well, on to our discussion... 1. How did you like the opening fight in the office? Is it classic Moonlighting? I have to admit that I did like the opening fight...classic Moonlighting....MacGillicuddy ticking off Viola, Bert boiling over and striking back. Then of course, all the other kids have to get in on the action....yes, classic, IMHO. The one piece that feels off to me is Maddie. Her anger is not the anger of the past. She is basically smiling throughout the whole thing. Is that intentional? Does she now find their antics humorous? In Season 2, she would have been blowing real steam at the unprofessionalism displayed in the office. So, has she mellowed and learned to appreciate the spontaneity or is Cybill just delivering the lines differently? All of which brings me to another point. I just find Maddie's facial expressions so very different in Season 5 than in all the other seasons...more of the "yuk, yuk, yuk" variety (sort of 3 stooges). I don't really like it. I agree, lin. I felt like Maddie wasn't really steamed--more just putting on a "mad face." Also a little odd is her comment to David when he comes in several hours late, along the lines of "Do whatever you need to do to make yourself happy." Which leads me to a question of my own: Do you buy this new, laid-back Maddie? Has she really changed...or do the writers just not know her character as it was in seasons 1-3?
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Post by lin212 on Aug 3, 2010 19:53:41 GMT -5
2. Do people really look for fame as what they leave for their legacy? Do you find that David's motives in this episode ring true?
I don't believe that most people seek fame as a legacy. I think people are more grounded than that and seek love, family, good works, compassion, etc. That said, David's motives ring true for me in this episode. I don't think that it is something that he has been dwelling on, but given this opportunity, he suddenly decides to grab the brass ring. I think that Maddie's fame has something to do with it as well. Maybe he is slightly jealous or feels the need to compete, to be equal to her, not just a "nobody".
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Post by jpen on Aug 3, 2010 19:57:43 GMT -5
4. Anybody else love this?
"Hell, Maddie, the only difference between this guy and every other clown who walks through that door is that we don't have to go through six talks in the car, two pair of shoes, a couple of sets of stunt doubles going through some big hokey elaborate chase just to find out that he IS the criminal."
Do you think that the writers may be making some commentary about season 5 here?I do love this! To me, it's classic, breaking-the-fourth-wall ML. Most of the chases were kinda hokey, no matter the season...though the balloon ride in "Yuk" and the lipstick-mobile definitely take the cake. And of course, there's the fun irony that he really ISN'T the criminal--or at least, not the biggest criminal in this week's bunch.
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Post by lin212 on Aug 3, 2010 19:57:58 GMT -5
3. Is the name on David's bowling shirt really "Twinkle"? Anybody have a clue as to why?
Maybe it's an inside joke??? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Post by beesnbears on Aug 3, 2010 19:58:22 GMT -5
3. Is the name on David's bowling shirt really "Twinkle"? Anybody have a clue as to why?LOL!! Because Bruce picked the name? Or maybe someone else did as a joke....we must find this out!! I'm gonna say it's because of the Twinkle in his eyes we so love... 4. Anybody else love this?
"Hell, Maddie, the only difference between this guy and every other clown who walks through that door is that we don't have to go through six talks in the car, two pair of shoes, a couple of sets of stunt doubles going through some big hokey elaborate chase just to find out that he IS the criminal."
Do you think that the writers may be making some commentary about season 5 here?Yes. They are making fun of themselves, but they end up with the worst chase scene EVER...imo... It escapes me now, but weren't the writers Reno and his buddy? And did anyone notice that Finnerman directed this? I had forgotten about that! 5. Curtis does another great turn here as the Monseigneur, maybe one of his best....love the blue plastic rosary beads around his neck. What is your all time favorite Bert scene?My kudos to Curtis as well! He is just so funny. My all time favorite, though, is him laying on David's couch in his office with a pillow stuffed up his shirt practicing Lamaze with David in "Fetal Attraction". The second is in "Lunar Eclipse" (?) when he is suffering major anxiety about getting married and David tries to help him through it.
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Post by jpen on Aug 3, 2010 20:04:41 GMT -5
5. Curtis does another great turn here as the Monseigneur, maybe one of his best....love the blue plastic rosary beads around his neck. What is your all time favorite Bert scene?Curtis as a man of the cloth is probably the best thing about this episode (well, the very best thing is the promise of Paris...but since that didn't pan out...). He does an outstanding pidgin Italian--though I wonder how he snows Dr. Van Breegle, who as an art history expert, would surely have a working knowledge of the language--and his facial expressions and snow-angel-making on the floor of the museum are priceless. But my favorite Bert scene still is the heartrending speech he gives, towel-clad, in "Tale in Two Cities" (again, by far the best thing about that ep). "You knocked up the boss" runs a pretty close second.
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Post by jpen on Aug 3, 2010 20:08:19 GMT -5
3. Is the name on David's bowling shirt really "Twinkle"? Anybody have a clue as to why?LOL!! Because Bruce picked the name? Or maybe someone else did as a joke....we must find this out!! I'm gonna say it's because of the Twinkle in his eyes we so love... Oh, I like this, bees! I also wondered if it's because he's a good dancer...as in Twinkle Toes...
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Post by lin212 on Aug 3, 2010 20:08:21 GMT -5
4. Anybody else love this?
"Hell, Maddie, the only difference between this guy and every other clown who walks through that door is that we don't have to go through six talks in the car, two pair of shoes, a couple of sets of stunt doubles going through some big hokey elaborate chase just to find out that he IS the criminal."
Do you think that the writers may be making some commentary about season 5 here?I do love this! To me, it's classic, breaking-the-fourth-wall ML. Most of the chases were kinda hokey, no matter the season...though the balloon ride in "Yuk" and the lipstick-mobile definitely take the cake. And of course, there's the fun irony that he really ISN'T the criminal--or at least, not the biggest criminal in this week's bunch. Ditto, jen, remiscent of some clever 4th wall commentaries of the past. I don't see this line so much as a commentary on Season 5. The lines that Maddie speaks to Agnes before Ash comes into the office hit me more. Maddie and Agnes say that everyone is tired, but then Maddie says how even tired, she would really miss not seeing everyone every day - even David. Writing on the wall?
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Post by beesnbears on Aug 3, 2010 20:14:38 GMT -5
6. What is your analysis of David and Maddie's relationship at this point? Are they resolving issues during the scene in the car, or just rehashing?
I think they are doing a little of both. They are still miles apart, yet this conversation is very telling. The sadness in Maddie's eyes....which Cybill does a terrific job here...when David tells her they talked their relationship (car crash, he calls it?) to death reveals how she feels about where their relationship is at this point. And if David weren't hiding behind those humongous Raybans we might see the same in his eyes as well.
As for what Diane said about this one being the last ep of the season....does that mean that the Annie arc would have come before this or did they throw the Annie arc together as a means to an end?
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Post by jpen on Aug 3, 2010 20:15:38 GMT -5
6. What is your analysis of David and Maddie's relationship at this point? Are they resolving issues during the scene in the car, or just rehashing?
The question of the hour, eh? It doesn't feel like a resolution to me...but it doesn't feel exactly like a rehashing either. Both of them look sad--David sounds bitter (I noticed that tone in "Those Lips" as well). And I think his comment, "We talked it to death," is just not true, though I can see that it's a convenient excuse for both of them. They talked AROUND it an awful lot, but never managed to say the really deeply-felt important stuff, particularly after the loss of the baby.
I did like the other car conversation, when David is distraught and Maddie tries to comfort him. It seemed to lay a small foundation for the possibility of reconnection...which we might have seen, if they made it to Paris instead of having a (very unwelcome) visitor.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Aug 3, 2010 20:17:04 GMT -5
1. How did you like the opening fight in the office? Is it classic Moonlighting? (I have a question about the music in this scene.....not an expert, but is the sequence used here from "An American in Paris"? Anybody? Buellar?)
Ah, I thought it was OK. I see that a lot of you like it, but it just didn't get me going. I suppose the nastiness of "The Office" movie tainted me. I thought Maddie handled it pretty well though, maybe some of David's management style is starting to rub off.
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