I am just commenting on the last two posts here. Firstly Witness - I am sure Goldie didnt see the original show and may have picked it up on DVD.
Secondly, I think I fell for Maddie and David a little bit more in each episode, however (and don't shoot me for this) I didn't like her at times. I especially don't like her very much in Atlas Belched when whe sells the agency. I know you guys love that stairs scene but I think that David is extremely gracious in this episode.
I would not have forgiven her for that so easily. She made some silly decisions. I think by the end of this episode she realises this.
The episode where I really warm to her is Mulberry Street. She is the better person in this episode by keeping Davids secret to herself and not getting mad with him.
Some people just don't get it! Only one of my close friends does. Everyone else I try to introduce to Maddie and David can take or leave them. A bit like me and Castle I suppose. xx
Snap, I don't like her either at the beginning of "Atlas" when she sells the agency, going over it lightly towards David with her "nothing personal, just business" attitude (although I think that even, already in that moment she knows that she is about to make a mistake).
What I meant was of course the development she is going through in this episode, just what you mentioned, when she offers her help to David very unselfishly (well, maybe she is not totally unselfish - she already misses working with him, misses him) - I love her "hire me!"
And in the end, for David's sake, she is ready and willing to refuse LaSalle's offer to sell the agency back to her because she doesn't want to destroy David's dream of running his own agency. That is about the most unselfish thing she's ever done IMO.
Of course, David is as wonderful as he refuses to live this dream at the cost of Maddie losing Blue Moon. I think both they show their golden hearts at the end of this episode in equal measure; I mentioned "Atlas" referring (only) to Maddie though, because this thread is dedicated to our golden girl.
I think it happens in many episodes, that Maddie at the beginning seems to be a little aloof, cool, arrogant - all those negative traits we associate with her - and then goes through some insights that make her look at things differently and listen to her heart, her golden heart that is there all the time.
Witness, I hate to say it, but you may be fighting a losing battle with your friend and ML. I think if you have gotten to "Every Father's" and she hasn't warmed to the show....or Maddie, then she is probably not gonna get there -- especially since you have such an affinity for Maddie.
Over all the years of this website, we have had many people wander in and out.....and some who have stayed! Many people were overjoyed in rediscovering Moonlighting when it started to rerun on Bravo.....and it seems that at that time, the reruns coincided with many folks getting more involved in computers and the internet. Computers brought a lot of long time fans who had no way to share their 'essedness out of the woodwork.
It's not an age.....we've had good devoted and articulate fans as young as 15 on the site since the beginning. I think I have got to say, it's an attitude, and an ability (talent, whatever) to read between the lines. Much of today's entertainment, especially TV, just throws it all out there -- once you've seen an episode, it's done. But Moonlighting was layered with so many wonderful things, the analysis seems to go on forever.
I'm not sure even Glenn knew what he had in the beginning. He took two stereotypes - "the 80s career woman, who had to scratch and claw to get ahead" and "the loveable ne'er do well of a guy, who was satisfied to work for the weekend, as long as it wasn't too demanding and he could have a little fun doing it." , and he placed them in a situation where they would have to work together and depend upon each other.
But a funny thing happened on the way to the cliche -- these two became real living and breathing people with hearts, souls and minds, who touched many people deeply. We learned their strengths, and their weaknesses, their good and their bad points, and we loved them for it.
I think each of us can explain what about this show, and M&D, touches in him or her.....but probably cannot fully explain what they mean for others. I really think it's an "in our hearts and in our mind thing", and either you get it or you don't.
I've tried to convert many people through my lifetime of love for this show, and it hasn't worked very often. It is so natural to want your best "pals" to love what you love......thank goodness we have "moonlighting strangers that we have met on the way" here.
I'm not trying to discourage you...maybe just say that I've been there too. :-)
Thank you sandra for eloquently capturing the essence and significance of "Atlas Belched" beyond the stairs scene; although that scene is crucial and signals the turning point in their relationship. I think you explained well why David forgave her easily: she showed that golden heart and a selflessness we hadn't before seen, that willingness to make a sacrifice for David's benefit.
And thank you, diane, for conveying our experience of loving this show and these wonderfully flawed characters. I don't think one necessarily has to love them, but an appreciation and understanding on some level is key. Basically, my friend believes Maddie is unrelatable because she's "too beautiful" and is constantly on David's case, until he offers to do something nice for her. Then she says "Oh, thank you David!" For a writer, my pal has an alarmingly superficial viewpoint on this complex character. Do I ever dislike Maddie's behavior and attitude? Of course! But when we talk about her and David being flawed, they are the kind of flaws that can be somewhat mended with personal growth. These two give each other opportunities to grow as people.
Watching ML was my friend's idea, not mine, but I've taken it somewhat personally that she only seems to be "in care" with one side of the equation. We'll see what the future holds for this little experiment.
Last Edit: Dec 29, 2011 23:13:35 GMT -5 by witness
"Lady gets in trouble, it's nice to know she has somebody to call"
Oh girls....I can't believe I've almost missed the stimulating discussion you've been having here! I want to say too! ;D Okay, first of all, answering Snap's question: no, I didn't discover Moonlighting on DVDs, I watched it on TV when it was aired in Russland, it was long before the DVDs were released. But I agree with Sandra on this one: don't think it matters where, when and how you discovered the show. Second of all....I've been reading your comments and I really like them! Although, I must disagree with something. Sandra wrote: "I think it happens in many episodes, that Maddie at the beginning seems to be a little aloof, cool, arrogant - all those negative traits we associate with her ..." I just want to say that not ALL OF US associate all those negative traits with her. I don't. Witness, I think Diane is right. If your friend hasn't discovered the magic of the show yet... I guess it'll never happen. Although, I do know people who watched the show, didn't show any interest in it, sometimes even disliked it. And only after some time they began to get it. That realization made them re-watch the show and only after that they really fell in love with it. Maybe it will happen to your pal too? I remember that when I introduced the show to my brother, we watched it in English, he didn't understand a word, but he was like: "shhhh, you are too loud, I am watching here!" And he understood it without understanding the language. And I knew he loved it. He still can't forgive Maddie for dancing with Richi. What concerns Maddie... there's this moment in the Pilot when they come to the office to spend a night there and I think we see a completely different Maddie there. The way she's looking and talking. Her "Do you have plan?" or "I'm scared and tired" sound so differently. She is vulnerable and soft and warm. Sue, absolutely agree: no Maddie without David, no David without Maddie, never ever!
David: you look awful... Maddie: yeah..well...and you smell awful!
Post by maddieaddisonjr on Jul 14, 2017 15:54:13 GMT -5
I thought Maddie was very glamorous from the very beginning, but I found it initially hard to identify with the rich model with her own personal chef being swindled out of everything by her accountant. I didn't dislike Maddie but she had a tad too much of the high and mighty/'I'm too good for silly you' vibe going on for me. She had no problem putting the City of Angels folks out of work (not that she didn't have a right to liquidate but at least have a heart about it). And I hate scenes where women slap men when it is not for physical self defense. Hate them. People think scenes like that are funny but they're not. And she slapped David just for calling her a nasty name. Fine, he's no saint in this situation so call him something too if you like, but you don't strike anyone in the face.
But I warmed up to Miss Hayes fairly early in The Next Murder You Hear when you get to see her loneliness and longing for that special someone. I saw Maddie in a different light.
Now, I realize their bickering is a big part of the show and they each had moments where they shined doing that. David is the jokey type and he could be immature beyond just having fun and that can annoy a house full of saints, I know,, but honestly, Maddie annoyed me more by getting so mad at David that she's snarling and slamming doors. Snappy one-liners are one thing but screaming and hollering is something else. It means you let someone repeatedly push your buttons until you lose control and become the disruptive one. As much as I love David, I couldn't work with someone encouraging my other employees to do nothing but limbo rock and--do nothing. But as an employee, I wouldn't want to work for a boss who's always screaming at this one guy all the time. Fire him!
But then we'd have no show. lol
And don't get me started on things like her "pact" nonsense, beating her father with her purse for cheating on her mother (I understand the upset of a daughter but she was waayyy out of line, and yes, abusive), and then her appallingly immature behavior during all of season four...to name a few. I've vented enough about that on other threads to resist doing it here. (Lucky you! lol)
Saying all this to say that, I liked Maddie with David more than I liked Maddie for herself. Yet...there was something about her rationality and practicality that was reassuring, trustworthy, and dependable. I will give her that. Besides, David's character was completely trashed at the end of season 5 and he became worse than Maddie had ever been.
Them's my two cents!
ADDING more cents ('cause I wrote the above on the fly during work!): Despite my criticism of Maddie (see some reasons above), I remember the scenes throughout where she showed warmth, and yes a kind of love, towards David and genuine caring for clients. I just feel that in the David and Maddie relationship, David showed a willingness to compromise and meet Maddie halfway to have a relationship with her--because he loved her--but like he said to her she just wouldn't commit. And it's not like she would've had to change her core personality or moral standards to do this. To me the things she didn't want to compromise were superficial. While love doesn't pay the utility bills, it certainly trumps fine dining and WASP manners -- two things that won't stand by you through thick and thin or be the yin to your yang. Just sayin'. Plus, Sam the Astronaut had all that and Maddie still didn't grab that brass ring. That should have told her that she was wasting time by faithfully giving lip service to certain relationship "standards" which no longer applied as far as her heart was concerned. But when you are afraid of change in certain areas of your life, you will keep yourself blind to truth (and rigid) at all costs.
I think I always liked Maddie. Even when she was acting "shrewish" I find myself usually agreeing with her when it comes to how she runs the detective agency. When David or the employees give her a hard time about it, I usually sympathize with her. Even the Christmas episode I was on her side. Making employees work Christmas...harsh. But considering that they have no problem playing around in the office the rest of the year, and no one gets mad when David loses a big account because he stayed out late drinking, considering the agency never made money before, considering that they were in the red so often, they should expect to the boss to make up for all that by trying to keep their account, and promise to the client. David being a stereotypical male chauvinist in the pilot...charismatic, but yeah, I can see why she didn't think much of that type of behavior.
Maddie was a former model, but she didn't give the impression of some former wild, partier like real life supermodels Gia Carangi or Janice Dickinson. She was professional and responsible.