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Post by newmoonfan on Dec 10, 2011 5:29:05 GMT -5
... for me are those that had significant airtime of the Agnes and Bert characters. I can say this no other way: I hate those two characters. They kill the show for me. I fast forward or skip their episodes. They just cannot act, the chemistry is painful. They are shallow, aimless and devoid of interest. (I'm trying to be kind.)
I can see where the show officially jumped the shark and began its death spiral. I don't recall the name of the episode, but their first full one together of those two without Willis and Shepherd had me counting the minutes until the next episode. I truly get now why fans bolted this series back in the 1980s.
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Post by diane on Dec 10, 2011 10:54:41 GMT -5
Weeeelllllll....I know we were all disappointed when "Agnes and Bert" episodes aired, and I didn't love the ones in the 4th and 5th seasons, but I have to disagree about the characters.
Agnes and Bert worked wonderfully as foils/alteregos/sounding boards for Maddie and David. I am not sure Moonlighting would be the same without Agnes' rhymes and Bert's forays into singing. They each had some great scenes throughout the run of the series (think Agnes in "Father Knows Last"). And as much as we would have loved to see all Maddie and David all the time, the strains of the show without the supporting characters would have been impossible for Cybill and Bruce to withstand.
And as for Allyce and Curtis themselves......I think they both had great comic timing and made their characters memorable and beloved. But that's just an opinion from one fan who didn't bolt.
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Post by jpen on Dec 10, 2011 17:29:52 GMT -5
Count me in, too, diane. I can't agree that Curtis and Allyce "just cannot act, the chemistry is painful" and that Agnes and Bert "are shallow, aimless and devoid of interest."
Moonlighting would not have been what it was without these two characters. Both individually and as a couple, they taught Maddie and David so much--not only a different way of looking at the world, but how a relationship could be different, too. As diane pointed out, Cybill and Bruce could never have carried all 43 minutes of the show, every week...and there was information we, the audience, were able to glean that came through Agnes and Bert scenes. Think of Agnes and Maddie talking in "Maddie's Turn to Cry"...Agnes' wonderful "I miss her too" in "Money Talks, Maddie Walks"...Bert's heartfelt speech in "Tale of Two Cities" (which, IMO, is the best thing about that episode!) and his outrage over Walter Bishop in "Maddie Hayes Got Married"...
The most painful episodes for me are the ones in which I feel like Maddie and David are not themselves, certainly in the last few episodes of season 5...as well as "Womb with a View," which is painful because of the subject matter, but also because of the jarringly "upbeat" way in which the death of a child is treated. Those are the episodes that might have made me bolt...if I hadn't been so sure, up until the final seconds of "Lunar Eclipse," that things were going to turn out differently.
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Post by iluvdavid on Dec 10, 2011 21:07:40 GMT -5
I've always wondered why they decided to end the show the way they did. Surely, they could have found a way to have written a "Happily ever after..." finale!
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Dec 11, 2011 3:15:52 GMT -5
I absolutely love the way Curtis spoke his lines, always sounding like he was delivering a Shakespeare monologue; then, he actually was in "Atomic Shakespeare." The dynamic between him and Allyce was fun to watch. What comes to mind is the scene in "Poltergeist III--Dipesto Nothing" where Bert is chasing Agnes down the hall to the elevator: "Why are you competing with me? It's not like we're running a potato sack race here!" He also makes a comment about not having fallen off the turnip truck. Agnes responds with "I'm sure you have better things to do than scurry after me spewing root-vegetable metaphors!" And then, "Thanks Bert. Hope you don't take this the wrong way...BUTT THE HELL OUTTA MY LIFE!" I think they shone brightest during the Sam Arc, particularly in "I Am Curious...Maddie" with the "Life's funny, isn't it..." over a game of Go-Fish Now, do I ever feel like popping in a Bert-Agnes episode? Not really. But they were a valuable asset to the show, and it would not have been the same without them. The most cringe-worthy for me is the end of "Tracks of My Tears." You know that look and body language David gets when Maddie hurts him in some way, like he just got socked in the gut? That's what happens to me when I hear "It's not yours." The way Maddie says it sounds like just a way to get him off her case. She was so devastated telling Walter about it on the train, and then so cavalier revealing it to David. Ouch.
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 11, 2011 15:47:16 GMT -5
Newmoonfan,
Perhaps watching some of the episodes that have been mentioned here again would make you reconsider.
Character development can be a tricky thing....I wonder if David would have gone after Mr. Hayes had Agnes not verbally and physically laid into him...what then? Or if he would have followed Maddie to Buenos Aires after Agnes revealed she felt the same way about Maddie's absence. Would we have gotten that wonderful scene outside the casino?
Agnes and Bert also spoke up for us, the viewers...a sneaky way for the writers to reveal they knew what we were thinking and what we wanted...somehow making us feel better!
I love Agnes and Bert. Curtis and Allyce played them perfectly.
Painful for me is the episode "Between a Yuk..." where Maddie tries to lose her thoughts and feelings about David and the lost baby by avoiding him and diving into work...and he knows what she's doing.
As far as most painful...the scene with David and Maddie where she waits in his bedroom for him to come home from a date with Annie and it becomes evident that she still loves David, but struggles to explain to him why she is there.
THAT is physically painful...
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Post by finefinegoodgood on Dec 12, 2011 12:24:15 GMT -5
Witness - I have to agree with every word you said. I so agree. The most painful for me was the "its not yours". That was and still is a real punch in the gut everytime I watch it.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Dec 12, 2011 12:54:51 GMT -5
The most painful moment for me is the one where Maddie is doing her laundry in the middle of the night after she lost the baby. Seeing her holding that T-shirt with the signature "Baby" breaks my heart every time I watch this moment.... As for Agnes and Bert... No way I'll agree they are useless caracters or that their acting was boring or bad. I love them and yes there is no Moonlighting without them ;-)
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Post by rose35 on Dec 12, 2011 20:01:33 GMT -5
As for Agnes and Bert... No way I'll agree they are useless caracters or that their acting was boring or bad. I love them and yes there is no Moonlighting without them ;-) SO agree with you G! I so didnt appreciate Agnes and Bert in the 80s ill admit. but today i love them so. Ok so their stand alone episodes arent the first i go to watch but they are perfect couple to have parrallel against D&M plus David needed a sidekick and Bert is perfect for that and hes a good friend to David like Agnes is good friend to both David & Maddie. Im so glad they got to have a romance on the show and marry in the end! Plus the actors are just wonderful in thier parts! Love Allyce and Curtis!
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myfairdavid
2nd Level
"I hate you, David Addison." ~ Maddie "I know. I hate you, too, Maddie Hayes." ~ David
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Post by myfairdavid on Dec 13, 2011 17:36:36 GMT -5
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Post by iluvdavid on Dec 21, 2011 5:47:35 GMT -5
I despise the scene in the beginning of A Trip to the Moon when David is singing in the shower and Maddie is applying lipstick. She looks so disgusted and annoyed with David. She really looks like she can't stand him.
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Post by beesnbears on Dec 21, 2011 11:10:31 GMT -5
ILD That scene makes me sad....but I always took Maddie's looks as her being conflicted with her heart and her head. She never thought she would be in a relationship with someone like David and there she is ....listening to the man she loves sing in the shower, unaware or not ready to admit that she does love him.
Forget the fear of falling at that moment....she's terrified. And he's so dang happy.
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Post by iluvdavid on Dec 21, 2011 17:46:39 GMT -5
Maybe she is confused but in this scene she just looks disgusted with him..I hate it..and a man like David? Gorgeous, funny, caring?? Makes no sense
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Post by sandra on Dec 21, 2011 18:22:18 GMT -5
What exactly was it she was so terrified of, I wonder? And a conflict between her head an her heart - I can see it too but can't understand it for the life of me. Why would her head speak against a relationship with David? What terrible obstacles were there? I mean, it's not like she fell in love with Charles Manson or any creep like that... very very difficult to come even near to understand for me...
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Post by iluvdavid on Dec 21, 2011 18:36:58 GMT -5
Charles Manson! I LOVE IT!! So true, what gives Maddie Hayes? ??
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