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Post by beesnbears on Jan 3, 2012 18:34:10 GMT -5
The pain is such a big part of what makes Moonlighting work though. It enhances the comedy. I agree with most of the scenes you have picked out. And I love Agnes Exactly, tamm! If the relationship had been all candy and roses I don't think we would still be discussing the show in such depth. The pain is actually what makes us watch and rewatch, all the while searching for reasons and answers...over and over again..... Guess they did do something right if people are here talking about it 25 years later.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 3, 2012 20:00:17 GMT -5
That scene makes me squirmy too.....but I don't see disdain for one another. I see two actors where one is pregnant, tired and probably puking between takes and another who is just as tired and overworked. Question.....if we hadn't heard the rumors, etc., stating that Cybill and Bruce didn't get along the last few seasons...if we had no idea as to what was supposedly going on behind the scenes....would you still think they were a mere facade as they waded through that scene? As far as the writing....they did have to add a plot point with Cybills pregnancy, hence they went in the direction of Maddie questioning their relationship, setting up her trip to Chicago and pregnancy reveal to coincide with Cybill's maternity leave. Looking back on it, I kind of like to think they had a plan because we got some great scenes from Bruce in Season 4 while Maddie/Cybill was away. Bees, I absolutely agree with you! This is what I feel every time I watch the scene, I look at them and see two very tired people, there's no disdain at all. And what a clever observation with the rumors - so true! If we didn't know anything about their real life relationship - we'd never think they were out of character or something. This is true.
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 3, 2012 20:15:31 GMT -5
I rewatched the scene and I didn't see disdain between them. I saw two confused people.
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myfairdavid
2nd Level
"I hate you, David Addison." ~ Maddie "I know. I hate you, too, Maddie Hayes." ~ David
Posts: 473
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Post by myfairdavid on Jan 3, 2012 21:59:49 GMT -5
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Jan 4, 2012 2:03:49 GMT -5
That scene makes me squirmy too.....but I don't see disdain for one another. I see two actors where one is pregnant, tired and probably puking between takes and another who is just as tired and overworked. Question.....if we hadn't heard the rumors, etc., stating that Cybill and Bruce didn't get along the last few seasons...if we had no idea as to what was supposedly going on behind the scenes....would you still think they were a mere facade as they waded through that scene? As far as the writing....they did have to add a plot point with Cybills pregnancy, hence they went in the direction of Maddie questioning their relationship, setting up her trip to Chicago and pregnancy reveal to coincide with Cybill's maternity leave. Looking back on it, I kind of like to think they had a plan because we got some great scenes from Bruce in Season 4 while Maddie/Cybill was away. Bees, I absolutely agree with you! This is what I feel every time I watch the scene, I look at them and see two very tired people, there's no disdain at all. And what a clever observation with the rumors - so true! If we didn't know anything about their real life relationship - we'd never think they were out of character or something. This is true. I see your points, both of you. But maybe I would still see dislike even without knowledge of the bad press. All I know is, there was something off, something missing. It's been discussed many times, but I don't buy David announcing his love for Maddie to the wobblies, then taking her on a date more lackluster than "Harvard MBA Mr. Success" and his "let's see what happens" wooing philosophy. Because Maddie was written so poorly (IMHO) in the scene, we didn't get to see all the things that led to David making the prior announcement. Perhaps Cybill, along with morning-noon-and-night sickness and exhaustion, was unhappy with the scene. So, their first last official date was written in a laundromat because a planned, wonderfully romantic date would have inspired Maddie to stay, thus wrecking the plot line? Tricky...
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Post by diane on Jan 4, 2012 12:58:51 GMT -5
I don't hate the scene in the laundromat as I think some interesting things came out of it, but I really do hate the laundromat itself as David's choice. As witness aptly pointed out...it was like somebody wrote where they wanted it to end, and then went back in and wrote in a bad path to get to that ending.
Lord....Los Angeles -- even if everything were closed, would you expect David to be that un-creative or lazy, especially since he's had experience in Maddie's preferred type of date?
Sneak her into the area with the Hollywood sign, the observatory, a deserted Hollywood Bowl, an overlook on Mulholland.....just to name a few. (And I'm just a tourist......I know if it were my city, I would have a hundred better and clever date places than a laundromat!) I know I will probably get kicked for this, but a season later, he knew where to take Annie....grrrr!
The lack of caring, and understanding of what it took these two to get here, in the hands of the creative team, is what is painful to me in this episode.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 4, 2012 14:11:14 GMT -5
I don't hate the scene in the laundromat as I think some interesting things came out of it, but I really do hate the laundromat itself as David's choice. As witness aptly pointed out...it was like somebody wrote where they wanted it to end, and then went back in and wrote in a bad path to get to that ending. Lord....Los Angeles -- even if everything were closed, would you expect David to be that un-creative or lazy, especially since he's had experience in Maddie's preferred type of date? Sneak her into the area with the Hollywood sign, the observatory, a deserted Hollywood Bowl, an overlook on Mulholland.....just to name a few. (And I'm just a tourist......I know if it were my city, I would have a hundred better and clever date places than a laundromat!) I know I will probably get kicked for this, but a season later, he knew where to take Annie....grrrr! The lack of caring, and understanding of what it took these two to get here, in the hands of the creative team, is what is painful to me in this episode. I couldn't agree more, Diane. It's not a secret that I totallly dislike David's choice of a place to go. And it is not that it is not glamorous or posh enough, absolutely not! It's as you've said - the lack of caring. He didn't spend even a second to plan the date. The laundromat could have been a very romantic place to go actually if only he gave it a thought! He could have brought flowers, put candles in there, maybe music (carefully selected), ANYTHING to show her how important she was for him. And about Annie... this is exactly the thing I said a couple of days ago on Twitter. He took her to all those amazing places! And THIS is really painful
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 4, 2012 15:02:50 GMT -5
Didn't he actually have a plan for the evening? Then Maddie ran back in the house and he spent a while trying to coax her back out....lost reservation?.....sigh...probably not...but are we suppose to believe that by the time they got going nice places to eat were full and movies were already playing?
Although, he should have gone for plastic menus and cheeseburgers.
David, David, David.
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 4, 2012 15:56:47 GMT -5
I've been to LA many times and there is ALWAYS something open and it doesn't have to be a place with plastic menus. And movies are playing also past 9...makes no sense. But Maddie they should have had a burger isn't that what MAddie wanted! Which brings me to another thing that bothers me. You mean to tell me that after 3 years of working together they never had lunch? And what did she want to buy in a store?? Just ridiculous!
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 4, 2012 15:59:29 GMT -5
And Goldilocks The dead horse! JK..I don't think she would have been satisfied if he would have brought her to dinner at Spagos (which was quite popular back then) and had "I Love You" written in the sky..she was dead set to hate anything he did!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 4, 2012 17:22:22 GMT -5
Awww girls.... this laundromat is really painful, isn't it? Bees, it looks like David didn't have any plans for the evening. I re-watched the scene. When she came out she asked: "so, if we were on this date, where would we go?" And he answered: "where? Anywhere. Where would you like to go?" Then he began to enumerate all the possible places: movies - but it's after 9 o'clock - everything has started; dinner - we don't have reservation (!); bars - no bars. not with you (sigh)... And then he says something really beautiful: "JUST COME WITH ME !No bars, of course not, I hate them! And he took her to that laundromat ugh but why? iluvdavid, the horse is alive! the horse is alive! ;D I don't agree she was intended to hate everything he did. If you re-watch the scene you'll see that she was actually in a good mood when they were discussing their plans for the evening, she even didn't get mad he made no reservation (!) She wanted that date! But yes she became really annoyed when she saw the laundromat. The thing she didn't like most was that there were no people in there, just the two of them. Besides, before they entered the laundromat he said something like: "Ha! I told you we'd find something!" That means that probably they spent a definite amount of time driving around the town searching for a place to go. This is not a fun activity, this is really annoying for a girl. This could end differently if only David put a little thought in it - a tiny one. I think.
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Post by jpen on Jan 4, 2012 17:25:59 GMT -5
I don't hate the scene in the laundromat as I think some interesting things came out of it, but I really do hate the laundromat itself as David's choice. As witness aptly pointed out...it was like somebody wrote where they wanted it to end, and then went back in and wrote in a bad path to get to that ending.
Lord....Los Angeles -- even if everything were closed, would you expect David to be that un-creative or lazy, especially since he's had experience in Maddie's preferred type of date? Sneak her into the area with the Hollywood sign, the observatory, a deserted Hollywood Bowl, an overlook on Mulholland.....just to name a few. (And I'm just a tourist......I know if it were my city, I would have a hundred better and clever date places than a laundromat!) I know I will probably get kicked for this, but a season later, he knew where to take Annie....grrrr! The lack of caring, and understanding of what it took these two to get here, in the hands of the creative team, is what is painful to me in this episode.Precisely, diane. I can live with the laundromat scene, but not with the total sloppiness of the writers in terms of the plot from the "Invisible Burglar" scene up to this one. No way, no how is it in David's character to "wing it" on the most important date of his life...rather, he would see it as an opportunity to show Maddie: a) that he knows her better than anyone else; and b) that he's willing, and able, to do what it takes to make her happy. And this date v. his night with Annie? Just makes me nauseous.
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Post by sandra on Jan 4, 2012 17:42:47 GMT -5
Sue, totally agree!! Worst writing, and utmost unbelievable!! No possibility to find anything open?? What is this, L.A. or some midland suburbia??? Ridiculous. And no, of course he never had a chance. You don't even have to go as far as the totally despicable "ambivalent" exchange -- already in the scene in front of her mirror we clearly see that she is not only ambivalent, but deeply negative towards this date -- which btw IMO is bad writing again, because in that scene in the office we could clearly see she was happy about it. That change of mind of hers came out of nowhere!
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 4, 2012 17:47:24 GMT -5
They live in LA! Not some small town. I find it hard to believe there was NO place that they could find open. I think it is ridiculous that they wound up in a laundromat. Maddie probably nixed every restaurant or idea David had and that is why they wound up with no where to go at 2 in the morning. JMO
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Post by sandra on Jan 4, 2012 17:53:39 GMT -5
Maddie probably nixed every restaurant or idea David had and that is why they wound up with no where to go at 2 in the morning. JMO Oh dear, I really don't want to think that, but I must say it wouldn't surprise me...
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