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Post by Frontier on Jul 23, 2007 10:37:05 GMT -5
Hmm, I'm really having conflicting emotions about this episode; that's the reason it took me so long to comment on it after "I am Curious... Maddie". To the whole conflicting mess - which relates to my 15-year-old feelings when initially this episode aired in Greece - I have to deal with an even more conflicting opinion after viewing the episode from the DVD. The reason: continuance.
When initially aired, this episode did not make it right after "I am Curious... Maddie", so there was a kind of anticipation on what will happen the day after. Not that this is not there watching the series from DVD, but I think my opinion about it was a little biased in the beginning, in favour of this episode.
I may have said it elsewere in this forum, but Moonlighting for me changed at all right when "Blonde on Blonde" aired. Things got a little wierd, kinda good mostly, but wierd. Maddie was starting to act a little schizophrenic regarding her relationship with David, kinda she wanted not to want him! Like she finally found out he was lousy in bed perhaps and wanted him out of her life. Too much conflict from a woman who practically begged him to say he loved her and when he did, she rejected him! This was not so clear to me when I first saw the episode - I was 15 and didn't knew much about love/relationships - so there was no negative impact on my opinion; this however has changed now and it is a minus point in this episode.
The underlying case is in direct contrast with Maddie/David relationship: the poor bartender is deeply in love with the rich woman and she is in love with him as well. They know they're made for each other, they want to be together, it's just that the girl's father (i.e the world) does not want to. With Maddie and David is the opposite: the world knows they're made for each other and they're in love and that they should be together, but they do not want to understand it. This is a great choice by the writers, because it keeps the momentum going, by letting the characters of David and Maddie to try in one side to "stick to their guns" and to the other side to try to embrace this new situation they're into.
The episode has some great moments, especially the ones related to the "pact - schmact" thing ;D
Overall, a nice episode but - and this is from one that does not believe that the series "jumped the shark" after sex - it really started a timebomb on Maddie and David characters: this is the point where they start to change from what they truly are.
8.
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Post by honeyblondenoggin on Jul 23, 2007 10:52:35 GMT -5
Ah, so weird that I can relate to both davnee and Frontier's posts about this episode! I agree, an 8.
And lin, I think I can answer your question from last year:
I went to an all-girls catholic high school. We had "brother schools" who were all-boys catholic high schools. And when I describe these guys now, I always say that "So-and-so and I went to high school together." Cuz we sorta did. We didn't share a classroom, but we did share extracurriculars. (And get your mind out of the gutter! I mean choir practice and dances!!!!)
So, don't be bothered anymore. Tess probably went to the "sister school" of David's all-boys (presumably catholic) high school.
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Post by lin212 on Jul 23, 2007 11:35:58 GMT -5
Good explanation, honey. Thanks.
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Post by Mulberry on Aug 3, 2007 6:42:40 GMT -5
I gave this a 10!! I love this episode! I don't have a problem with the way Maddie acts here - this is typical Maddie. She cannot cope with feeling so out of control in the way she lives her life. She needs to contemplate, consider etc. And being with David just makes her feel reckless and out of control. She can't see that its a good thing and that Dave really and truly adores her, heart and soul. She's being blinded by fear here I think, but her real desire for David keeps on overcoming that fear.....
What the problem is for me - the next episode in the beginning of Season 4, which makes Maddie's confusion seem like out and out rejection and out of character coldness. Maddie was never cold, she was scared of losing control.
Mul
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Post by maddieaddisonjr on Jul 4, 2008 16:08:48 GMT -5
*8* I'm conflicted. This was a good episode - lots of D/M interaction and Bruce without his shirt. Can't go too wrong with these! But...I agree with rose, lin, Frontier and others who are disappointed with Maddie's attitude "the morning after." How about a display of tenderness and satisfaction with David at least once? She came off distant while still in bed with him. Huh? No, it shouldn't be smooth sailing between them but it strikes me as immature for Maddie to insist on pretending that they were never together – and demanding that David do the same, not hesitating to use “what you told me last night” (that he loved her!) to coerce his obedience. That’s low. And how could she not want him?? Like skipsquat said: Let’s not forget Maddie’s “when two people are meant to be together” meltdown in ‘It’s a Wonderful Job.’ - another one of many tender moments they shared or carried solo reflecting their feelings for one another throughout the series. In fact how do you go from IAWJ to Maddie not turning to David in her, er, time of need in BOB? Consistency anyone? From “Blonde On Blonde” through “To Heiress Human,” David’s behavior practically screamed that he loved Maddie. Maddie’s behavior said she suspected as much, returned the sentiment but wasn’t sure what to do about it. To me David was right - he didn’t have to say anything. She knew it and he knew it. She felt it and he felt it. But to add icing on the cake, he did verbally say he loved her and later confirmed that he meant it. So you’re 35 (the bio clock is ticking after all), two great guys love you and you love them but at the end of the day you reject them both – which is about as realistic as a Dr. Seuss tale. At this point in the story, Maddie’s becoming a clueless scatterbrain who refuses the happiness waiting for her with someone different from her safe ideal. It was the wrong way to write the character.
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nazel
1st Level
Posts: 90
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Post by nazel on Jul 4, 2008 17:29:28 GMT -5
Really good post Maddie, I totally agree .. & it was a finale, would it have killed them to make us happy? lol
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Post by callmeditzy on Sept 6, 2008 23:18:46 GMT -5
I agree with the folks in the Conflicted Camp. I know a lot of people love this episode because it's jam-packed with action (if you know what I mean, and I'm sure you do!), but something about it bothers me. Part of my problem is that I have a hard time separating the events in this episode with what I know is coming in the next eight or so.
I totally get Maddie being confused. In my view, by the time the deed was finally done (well done, over and over), David had admitted to himself that he was in love with Maddie and embraced it. Being faced with almost losing her to Sam undoubtedly intensified his feelings of urgency to be with her. But Maddie was in a different place. She clearly knew something was brewing between David and her before Sam showed up, and she knew her feelings for David were strong enough to keep her from continuing a relationship with another man, even one so seemingly perfect for her. But I think that, even though by making love with David she was admitting to herself and to him that she was in love with him, too, she was still very confused about what it all meant.
For David, who jumps head-first into a relationship once he decides that's what he wants, the future isn't so important. He understands that life, and love, is risky and that there are no guarantees about the future. It's enough for him to know that he loves her right now and wants to take the gamble with her and kind of take it as it comes. But Maddie's not like that. She doesn't take risks and gambles without some kind of insurance. She's uncomfortable with not having the assurance of a stable future. And regardless of how much she loves David, she still has misgivings about their compatibility in the long run. So I get her hesitation.
What I don't get is how quickly she retreated. They were still in bed when she put up a wall between them! By the time she made it into work, she had made up her mind that she wanted to pretend it never happened! Never mind the fact that this man meant enough to her to turn People's Sexiest Man Alive down!
While I did like the scenes of David seducing Maddie and her turning to putty in his hands, I didn't like how isolated those scenes seemed. There was plenty of screen time devoted to showing us how vehement Maddie was about denying their night together and keeping their relationship platonic. If she was supposed to be having conflicting feelings, why didn't we see more of the other side of the coin? I would have liked to have seen a few shots of Maddie staring after David a bit, something to show that she was thinking about him with some kind of affection or desire.
The only times I saw her backing down from her Pact Stance was when David starting coming on to her and she couldn't resist him. And that was hot and everything, but it left me with the impression that her only conflict was that she wanted him sexually. As if he truly was a man who repulsed her in every way, someone she had no genuine affection for or bond with, someone she was utterly disgusted by, but she just couldn't help the fact that she wanted to jump him. And that goes against everything I saw in every episode leading up to I Am Curious, Maddie.
And I didn't like that even that sexual desire had to be coaxed out of her by David. It would have been nice to see Maddie coming to the realization on her own that, try as she might to deny it, she wants him and needs him and loves him. I would have loved to see David pull some reverse psychology on her. Especially after they broke the first pact, he could have given her what she said she wanted. He could have completely backed off and made a big show of acting only professionally toward her. Then she could have slowly been driven crazy by it. She could have found herself starting at his mouth as he chewed on his pencil or daydreaming about their night together and getting annoyed with herself because of it. She could have subtly flirted with him, expecting him to respond in kind they way he always did. She'd get annoyed with him when he didn't and angry when he'd tell her he's just giving her what she wants. Then it could have reached a boiling point within her and she could have thrown herself on him. He, of course, would have put up the pretense of resistance at first, but eventually, he'd give in.
Even though it wouldn't give us a declaration of "Oh, we're so in love and we just know we'll be together forever and ever and have a million babies", which I think would have been unrealistic at that point anyway, I would have felt more convinced of Maddie's feelings.
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Post by rose35 on Sept 7, 2008 9:34:52 GMT -5
callmeditzy, i love your idea at the end of your post, that would have been a great storyline too, David backs off and it surprizes Maddie and then Maddie goes after him Wow noone ever wrote that scene in a fanfic, sounds like a good one
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Post by lin212 on Sept 7, 2008 10:31:13 GMT -5
Great points, callmeditzy. As one of those in the conflicted camp, I often think of Maddie in Maddie's Turn to Cry. The writers did a great job showing not only her confusion. but also her recognition of her feelings for David. What does she say to Agnes - "they're both terrific"? How does David go from "terrific" to "not who I am supposed to be with" in 2 episodes? I don't get it.
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Post by beesnbears on Sept 7, 2008 19:54:19 GMT -5
I have been conflicted, afflicted, constricted and addicted to this very same thing!!! ;D
And I think if the writers had allowed input from the actors who knew the characters better than anyone (even us!) we might have gotten a very different story at the end of S4 and all of S5. I base this on the commentaries that included Cybill and Bruce and some of the things they said.
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bluemooner
3rd Level
Moonlighting strangers who just met on the way
Posts: 850
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Post by bluemooner on Sept 8, 2008 16:40:13 GMT -5
I guess I would put myself in the conflicted category as well. I am Curious, Maddie ended w/ such a great look between them in the final shot---a look of pure happiness. They were where they wanted to be--finally. David says, I love you, to Maddie (too bad we can't hear it) and the expression on her face is wonderful. You can see how much she loves David. So, when I watch To Heiress Human, it upsets me a little.
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Post by callmeditzy on Sept 8, 2008 19:21:27 GMT -5
I think you're absolutely, right beesnbears! Not to blame Cybill for any of what happened, but I would love to know where Glenn would have taken the relationship story if Cybill hadn't gotten pregnant. I'd love to know where Cybill or Bruce had wanted to story to go. Oh, what could have been!
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tony
1st Level
Posts: 8
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Post by tony on Sept 9, 2008 21:12:59 GMT -5
This is why I love ML. So many emotions, so many what ifs. Never was there a show that had such complicated relationship woes. Which I believe for a writer is one of the hardest things to write about. Because when we talk about love, we're talking about the very essence of human behavior.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2010 9:08:47 GMT -5
I guess I would put myself in the conflicted category as well. I am Curious, Maddie ended w/ such a great look between them in the final shot---a look of pure happiness. They were where they wanted to be--finally. David says, I love you, to Maddie (too bad we can't hear it) and the expression on her face is wonderful. You can see how much she loves David. So, when I watch To Heiress Human, it upsets me a little. I'm totally agree. 9 from me.
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Post by missingmymoonlight on May 20, 2012 20:15:32 GMT -5
...I remember being shocked when I first saw this episode (original airing). I could not believe how horrible Maddie was to David -- listen to her voice, check out her face the morning after when she says "I want to take a shower" -- I thought I had wandered into a resurrected episode of THE TWILIGHT ZONE. The horror continued when they wound up horizontal in David's apartment and Maddie starts out like neurotic Maddie in the bed but emerges from the bathroom a complete rhymes with itch word. It is so mean-spirited and inconsiderate. David handles it well, turning the tables on her, but he is hurt. The make-out scenes were fine, more than fine, but I never understood why the writers put such self-absorbed words in Maddie's mouth. She is Type-A insecure, not cruel. Perhaps this was the beginning of the end of Cybill's long feud with Glenn Caron and their struggles were reflected in the writing (never a good idea for the actual audience, by the way) but it is almost inexcusable. I guess the chemistry when Maddie and David ARE allowed their tender moments saves the episode in the end. Also anything with William Hickey can't be all bad! Rate it a solid 7.
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