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Post by lin212 on Apr 23, 2009 6:45:56 GMT -5
Darn we missed out on a month of them waking up in the mornings like that huh? LOL I hate that we missed that month. So just speculating: Are we supposed to beleive they had like the same type conversation every day for a month? That is a great question, rose...I'm gonna have to ponder that one. David does say, in her office later, "We've got more pacts than the Geneva Convention!" which indicates that they've had the THH conversation over and over...I would love to believe, though, that there were some mornings when Maddie didn't start questioning herself as soon as her eyes were open...a few times when, just maybe, she actually let herself enjoy being in the ol' sin bin with David... And, for the love of Pete, WHY couldn't we see just ONE of those times?! Jen, I am so with you on this. We actually got so few of the really fine (or is that fun?) moments between them. Sigh...
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Apr 23, 2009 7:42:07 GMT -5
I tell ya folks, I had a MUCH better time discussing this episode with you people than I ever had watching it.
A muse was upon me, so I changed the wording under the avatar.
I love this forum.
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Post by lin212 on Apr 23, 2009 8:53:19 GMT -5
And we love having you here, gray. ;D
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Post by rose35 on Apr 23, 2009 9:05:04 GMT -5
I tell ya folks, I had a MUCH better time discussing this episode with you people than I ever had watching it. A muse was upon me, so I changed the wording under the avatar. I love this forum. Gray you are so right! We have the coolest group here i bet of any tv forum The avatar sig is too darn funny! Thanks for making us LOL
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Post by rose35 on Apr 23, 2009 9:08:29 GMT -5
Darn we missed out on a month of them waking up in the mornings like that huh? LOL I hate that we missed that month. So just speculating: Are we supposed to beleive they had like the same type conversation every day for a month? That is a great question, rose...I'm gonna have to ponder that one. David does say, in her office later, "We've got more pacts than the Geneva Convention!" which indicates that they've had the THH conversation over and over...I would love to believe, though, that there were some mornings when Maddie didn't start questioning herself as soon as her eyes were open...a few times when, just maybe, she actually let herself enjoy being in the ol' sin bin with David... And, for the love of Pete, WHY couldn't we see just ONE of those times?! Oh JPEN it just gets to me big time! It sure sounds like she must have woke up every morning and said the almost same stuff, if so it's amazing David came back for more night after night, proves he loves her eh? But truthfully no we didnt get to see enough of the LOVE between them Thank goodness for fabulous Fan fiction
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Post by Cindy on Apr 23, 2009 10:31:34 GMT -5
Friends,
This discussion was such a hoot! I read every post. You have done a very good job of trying to explain an episode that is nearly unexplainable. I used to really like this episode....mostly because I LOVED the Honeymooners part.... but this episode definately made me feel as ambivalent as Maddie claims she felt.
Thanks for delving into this. It made for a great read.
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Post by rose35 on Apr 23, 2009 22:35:49 GMT -5
Friends, This discussion was such a hoot! I read every post. You have done a very good job of trying to explain an episode that is nearly unexplainable. I used to really like this episode....mostly because I LOVED the Honeymooners part.... but this episode definately made me feel as ambivalent as Maddie claims she felt. Thanks for delving into this. It made for a great read. YAY for Cindy stopping by! Nice to see you here! ANd you are right, by having this eweekly discussion on episode we all seem to be learning alot more about this show and maybe seeing things we never saw or trhought of before and well yeah getting quite a few good laughs in too here I will say with this discussion i understand the HAMBURGER thing better now. I agree now that it was probably just a metaphor to doing normal couple things together. I took it literally as going to have a hamburger. And another thing about how Maddie was acting in her office with the pillow over her head and thne in the bathroom: maybe Maddies hormones were starting to kick in with early pregnancy symptoms and thats why she was feeling the way she felt. Great discussions as always gang!
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Post by hayesydaze on Sept 24, 2010 0:24:28 GMT -5
So, just watched this episode for the first time in my life....reading your opinions was very interesting. It seems that everyone has super mixed feelings about this one, and maybe a lot of that came from watching the show when it was on, everything building up.
I really enjoyed it. I liked the Honeymooners bits, I thought that the scene in the Laundromat had a kind of melancholy romance to it, actually...Maddie saying that she didn't have the energy to deal with such a tempestuous relationship (red hot or icy cold) as the one she has with David MADE SENSE to me, even if I didn't necessarily like it.
If you think about it, these two do have a really unconventional relationship on every level--professional and friendship too. They function best as a working team by bouncing off each other, as friends by challenging each other, but close friendship with a thread of strong sexual tension can work more smoothly (albeit still dysfunctionally) than a fully realized romantic relationship where a couple hasn't gone through the formal motions.
Maddie talks about the dating part being important...it IS important, because it proves that the person was willing to sit through some potentially awkward dates, through getting to know you as a person before just jumping in the sack. Of course M&D HAVE gotten to know each other as people through working together, but it happened so organically that I don't think Maddie quite trusts it...Sorry, I'm going to try to answer the questions and stop ranting now.
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Post by sandra on Jan 28, 2011 17:03:17 GMT -5
So, I pulled all my courage together and took off for the rocky season 4 ride tonight... oh boy. I'm not answering the questions rightaway, I'd just like to give my unordered thoughts. Very funny start. The Blue Mooners - I liked it very much. It was so great to see Charles Rocket again, I love him. Oh Maddie, Maddie... I can understand her confusion, and at the same time I can't. If it's going like she says, then it really is no relationship at this point. Nevertheless I resent her calling them "a bad habit"! Then, the question is: why is it that way? Not talking about giving one the fault, but only stating facts. In "Heiress" it was Maddie who did absolutely object letting anybody know that there was something going on between them. Then why does she complain now that they are driving in separate cars to work and say good night at 5:30? She wanted it that way! That is probably what he meant when he said she didn't give herself to the relationship. Very sweet was David's love declaration in the office and Maddie's reaction to it; we saw the faintest ray of hope, but... I liked the Joyce Brothers/Ray Charles piece; it was so cute to see David's nervousness. The conversation in the car really annoyed me; that was a good example of discussing everything to death. And I hated the "You do know what ambivalent means?" phrase. The bit outside Maddie's door was too extended for my taste, and yes - more than 4 hours missing are strange ("it's after 9:00" - "2:00 in a laundromat"). In the laundromat - I like her I hate you much better than her I love you. The latter sounded very casual to me. She says that they were only either white hot or icy cold, meaning that there is no in between. Sorry, but this is what I absolutely don't understand. How can she say such a thing? Has she forgotten all the things they went through? All the sweetness they had shared, the many, many times they had shown each other how much they cared? What about "You followed me to Buenos Aires, I followed you to New York"?! Yes, I understand she wants to have a feeling that they can be a normal couple. But - first: they are not normal people, how can they be a normal couple? And, BTW - what is "normal" anyway? Second: why didn't she tell him earlier she'd like to do those "normal" things? Instead, she made quite clear she wanted to keep everything secret. So? They know each other's secrets, each other's weaknesses, strenghts, moral standards... that's part of why they love each other! So what is up with her? I'm sorry, but it really seems as if she won't allow herself to be happy, but why, just why? This makes me so sad. David's looks in this episode? Ah well, to me, he could put on a tux or a sweater or a shirt and still look great. I wouldn't even care if he put on nothing of this... no, wait, can it be that I put this wrong?? I liked him in the suit in the office scene; it was cut very neatly, and to me it seems that he had done quite a bit of workout during the between-seasons-hiatus. Wouldn't wanna complain about that. ;D Ah, and one last thing that annoys me really: Maddie says she knows how it is spending 14 hours in bed with David - and they don't show us even five teensy-tiny minutes of it? Yuck!!
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 28, 2011 17:42:35 GMT -5
Oh, poor Sandra...I know how you feel... I feel the same way, but ... vice-versa It seems like you put the blame on Maddie only... Let's see what can I do to defend the girl In the laundromat - I like her I hate you much better than her I love you. The latter sounded very casual to me. She says that they were only either white hot or icy cold, meaning that there is no in between. Sorry, but this is what I absolutely don't understand. How can she say such a thing? Has she forgotten all the things they went through? All the sweetness they had shared, the many, many times they had shown each other how much they cared? What about "You followed me to Buenos Aires, I followed you to New York"?! The lady made it clear before: she wants them to do something somewhere but not only in her bedroom. She said it, David heard it, right? And what is he doing? NOTHING. He was not able to prepare a date, he did nothing: no table in the restaurant, no tickets to the movie... why? Because it is David. The laundromat ? Please... he didn't take her there because it is a romantic place to go, and he apparently was not going to wash their clothes either. So? He took her there because it was the next place to go when there is no choice left. It is sad... Who would expect a sweet "I love you" after that? They know each other's secrets, each other's weaknesses, strenghts, moral standards... that's part of why they love each other! So what is up with her? I'm sorry, but it really seems as if she won't allow herself to be happy, but why, just why? Maybe because she is not sure he loves her the way she loves him? Maybe because they spend more time in the bedroom than anywhere else? Maybe because she is afraid that his attraction to her is just a physical one? There are thousands of these "maybes".... p.s. have you ever thought how the whole date would go if David took her somewhere else? To watch a movie? To eat? To dance?
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 28, 2011 17:46:05 GMT -5
And Sandra, I am so glad you've decided to watch Season 4 after all the things you've heard about it It is worth watching, believe me
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Post by sandra on Jan 28, 2011 18:15:26 GMT -5
yes, goldie, I have thought about that. And I can't see it end very well, can you? I think her confusion, her ambivalence was already at a too high level. Remember the difference when they were getting read< for the date and had their respective "visions". I see David as nervous, eager to please, behave himself etc. On the other hand, Maddie approaches this date already with a somewhat negative attitude, don't you think? ("Why am I doing this?") Gives me the impression she doesn't even want to give it a try. Prepare the date? Yes, you've got a point here, goldie, certainly. I think it was because he was nervous, nervous, nervous. I really don't understand the laundromat thing, I think it was just some kind of bad writing, I dunno. I can't believe that it's impossible to find a place at a restaurant on a weekday without a reservation. I'm doing it all the time. Of course, the laundromat wasn't a good location. You think she maybe was afraid he was only after her physical beauty? Uhm... where has she been the last two and a half years? Seriously, they have gotten beyond this point a long time ago. She herself told him in "Heiress": "I'm exactly the one you wanna be with, and I'm gonna be under your skin for a long time" She must know he's not only interested in sleeping with her. They did everything only in the bedroom? Well, she was the one acting like she was "ashamed of us". Try to see it the other way round: if you, the girl, were told by the man you love and you sleep with "I don't want anybody to know that we're sleeping together, so please do everything to keep it hidden" - how would you feel, goldie? I know I'd feel... well... used. Now we know - and David knows, too - that her problem isn't that she's not only using him, but the fact that she seems to be "ashamed" of them, hurts him.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 29, 2011 8:05:49 GMT -5
Oh, Sandra.... I still can't agree with you on this point, but I'm trying very very very hard... honestly You think she maybe was afraid he was only after her physical beauty? Uhm... where has she been the last two and a half years? Seriously, they have gotten beyond this point a long time ago. Ok, let's discuss this one. You know, it is one thing to be with David as his best friend, partner, pal (that what they've been doing the last 2,5 years) and quit a different thing to be with David as his girl-friend or/and lover (that is what she has just started to experience) She knows that he cares about her and does everything for her as her best friend, he proves it every day, and she knows it. And of course as you've said already they've been through a lot of things together and they know each other perfectly well as FRIENDS! But now they are moving from "being friends" to the next level of their relationship. Physical beauty is not a key criterion in friendship, you don't make friends on the basis of it, do you? But it can be sometimes a very important issue in love matters, there are many couples whose relationships are based just on this criterion. Maddie knows it. She just doesn't want to be another one. She wants to be special. That's why the whole issue with the date has made her upset. For her it looks like he has brought her to the empty room in order to do what? ?? And how does it make her feel? They did everything only in the bedroom? Well, she was the one acting like she was "ashamed of us". Try to see it the other way round: if you, the girl, were told by the man you love and you sleep with "I don't want anybody to know that we're sleeping together, so please do everything to keep it hidden" - how would you feel, goldie? I know I'd feel... well... used. Well....first of all there is this difference between "the man you love" and "the man you sleep with", unfortunatelly, they do not always coincide, maybe that is why she didn't want anybody to know about their "bed relationships"? Try to see it that way: David never takes her on dates, they don't go anyway together as a couple, but they sleep together. If now everybody find it out what will they think? How will they call it? Exactly! An AFFAIR. But she doesn't want an affair, she loves him, she wants romance. You know, the problem is that we know how much he loves her and how much he cares about her, because we see all these scenes and hear all the speeches (like that one he gives Mr.Hayes), but Maddie never gets such a chance. When he is with her he says nothing, not a thing, not a syllable. And that makes her confused. If only she knew all that we know.... This episode drives me crazy girl
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Post by sandra on Jan 29, 2011 8:15:44 GMT -5
Goldie, I love, love, love our discussions on this point! They're very insightful. And, besides, our multiple posts on this issue moved you up to level 2 lately, as I noticed, and myself to level 3! Yay to our new stars!! ;D
I have to go now, but I'll be back later to reply thoroughly.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 29, 2011 8:21:46 GMT -5
Goldie, I love, love, love our discussions on this point! They're very insightful. And, besides, our multiple posts on this issue moved you up to level 2 lately, as I noticed, and myself to level 3! Yay to our new stars!! ;D I have to go now, but I'll be back later to reply thoroughly. Wow! We've got new stars! I've not noticed that, but it is great-great! Yay to our stars! Ahhhh, what could be better than our lovely discussions, love them too! p.s. I'm looking forward to your comments on the issue
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