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Post by rose35 on Mar 10, 2009 18:08:54 GMT -5
Good Evening my dear ML friends! Tonight we have another nice group of questions from not only ME, but BEESNBEARS, and LIN212 also! So if any of our questions sound alittle like a part of another feel free to group them together. I think we may have one or 2 like that i think LOL Hope i worded my questions the way you could understand what i was getting at too LOL Ok so i'm off to get my dinner done now , so without further ADO Here they are: 1: In the beginning of this episode we find out Maddie/Walter have annulled their 2 week marriage . What do you think of Walter's breaking the 3rd wall ( or is it 4th wall LOL) and talking to the audience about them being happy he is leaving while he exits the Blue Moon Office ? 2: Maddie chases David down the hall and asks, “Why don’t you talk to me about all of those things you don’t want to talk about?” Put yourself in David’s shoes and answer Maddie’s question. 3: As we listen in on their thoughts in the car we hear David and Maddie think, “Things are different now, but they’re still the same.” Does this revelation mean the same thing to Maddie and David? 4:David tries to remain distant and aloof from Maddie, and while his slate may not be entirely clean, he finally reveals to Maddie what he is thinking in his little speech in her office. Are his feelings more revealing to Maddie or to himself? 5:Where David says his slate is clean to Maddie during that big speech, lets all think back to an episode titled Tale In Two Cities. David slept with someone he just met at a bar/club during that episode, Do you think Daivd's slate is really clean? Do you feel he lied when he said that or was he just forgetting it happened or were the writers forgetting that it happened ? Does that line bother you since we the audience know what he did and Maddie doesnt? 6). Does the title of this episode have any special meaning or do you think that it is just a play on words? 7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David? 8). Initially, David seems ready to pick up where he and Maddie left off. His attitude smacks of self-satisfaction, he delights in teasing Maddie about his availability. As the episode continues, however, David becomes more distant, cynical, doubtful that the relationship can work. Do you think that his anger in the "clean slate" scene meshes with his playfulness in the opening scene? 9: Do you feel Maddie jumps too quickly into thinking David is ready to jump right back into their relationship now that she annulled her marriage to Walter? Do you feel David's backing down is to hurt Maddie or is he still so hurt that he feels he can't trust Maddie and the thought of a having relationship with her? Do we feel he is right to act the way he does towards her? 10: In most ML episodes the case plays like a back story to D/M relationship where it affects them. Is there any thing in this case we can relate to M/D relationship? 11: This episode ends with the audience feeling very hopeful for M/D and their relationship. They are planning lamaze classes and look very happy. We know Season 5 should have continued this way but unfortunately it doesnt. Do you wish they never ended this episode that way? Side note: Dont you just love that kiss on the bridge! SIGH! LOL Well that's it folks! Feel free to discuss/add anything else we may not have picked up on with our questions! HAVE TONS OF FUN! Just where exactly is the relationship going?
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Post by lin212 on Mar 10, 2009 18:36:18 GMT -5
1). What do you think about Walter breaking the 4th wall and talking to the audience?
I think this was the writers' way of saying "We hear you!". There was such an uproar over Maddie's marriage to Walter that this show did what it does best - acknowledge what was going on out there in the real world.
Actually, this episode breaks the 4th wall quite a bit - David and Maddie directly, as well as the little comments such as 9:00, 8:00 central time.
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Post by diane on Mar 10, 2009 18:43:13 GMT -5
In the beginning of this episode we find out Maddie/Walter have annulled their 2 week marriage . What do you think of Walter's breaking the 3rd wall ( or is it 4th wall LOL) and talking to the audience about them being happy he is leaving while he exits the Blue Moon Office ?
Walter breaking the 4th wall is sheer perfection......in all the years since this episode aired, I could not think of a better treatment of the "Walter" issue.
I cannot imagine what Dennis Dugan's life was like while these episodes were airing -- think he had to go into hiding? I know that the letters, telegrams, telephone calls to ABC were completely out of control during this time. So for Dennis, as well as for Walter, it was surely an appropriate way to end the relationship with the viewers.
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Post by lin212 on Mar 10, 2009 18:53:06 GMT -5
5:Where David says his slate is clean to Maddie during that big speech, lets all think back to an episode titled Tale In Two Cities. David slept with someone he just met at a bar/club during that episode, Do you think Daivd's slate is really clean? Do you feel he lied when he said that or was he just forgetting it happened or were the writers forgetting that it happened ? Does that line bother you since we the audience know what he did and Maddie doesnt? I can see this happening 2 ways. The first and easiest explanation lies with the writers. We all know that continuity was not one of their strong suits. Putting that aside, I think that David would consider his fling with Rita as an inconsequential indiscretion that meant absolutely nothing and which he regretted that very night. As he walks down the street in Tale, he looks miserable, alone. He wouldn't even put that into the same category as Maddie's actions - running away to Chicago, forbidding him to contact her and then marrying Walter. He would chalk that night up to a stupid mistake fueled by liquor and loneliness. It didn't count, in David's mind.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:10:19 GMT -5
5:Where David says his slate is clean to Maddie during that big speech, lets all think back to an episode titled Tale In Two Cities. David slept with someone he just met at a bar/club during that episode, Do you think Daivd's slate is really clean? Do you feel he lied when he said that or was he just forgetting it happened or were the writers forgetting that it happened ? Does that line bother you since we the audience know what he did and Maddie doesnt? David's slate is clean as far as his relationship with Maddie. Maddie basically broke up with him in the laundromat...he was free, whether he wanted to be or not. His fling, IMO, is basically inconsequential ( Lin) because of this. No, I don't feel David lied...it's like Maddie's leaving drove him to do that...he was hurting, in need of comfort. Yes, it only made him feel worse because it wasn't Maddie but the poor guy had endured a lot of heartache! Maddie is doing whatever in Chicago, David had no idea what she was on...all he knew is she wasn't with him. No the line doesn't bother me at all, again, in regards to their "relationship", he did have a clean slate.
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Post by diane on Mar 10, 2009 19:10:32 GMT -5
I am going to digress a little from the questions.......Lord knows we NEVER hijack these threads....hahaha! Jen's great follow-up story last week reminded me of an exercise a bunch of us did way back years ago. We did "Alphabet Moonlighting" -- we chose a letter of the alphabet and a word, and wrote a one or two page vignette. Cut to the chase....one of those I wrote years ago is what I called a "missing scene" in "The Flesh Was Made Word". Just in case anybody wants to take a look, I posted it on Fanfiction.net. And please be gentle -- it was written about 7 or 8 years ago. It's called "Deny" www.fanfiction.net/s/4915448/1/Deny
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:18:19 GMT -5
1: In the beginning of this episode we find out Maddie/Walter have annulled their 2 week marriage . What do you think of Walter's breaking the 3rd wall ( or is it 4th wall LOL) and talking to the audience about them being happy he is leaving while he exits the Blue Moon Office ? LOL, I think it was fabulous for the writers to let us know we were heard and that whole situation was absurd! Even when I watch it now and he says "Are you happy now?"...I say "YES", lol. I'm not mad at the fact they were married so much now, the greater the conflict the better the happy ending. What gets me is the clean up... sloppy, unresolved ; this conflict could have catapulted Maddie and David's relationship to such greater heights if addressed properly...yet, that's my opinion.
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Post by jpen on Mar 10, 2009 19:19:35 GMT -5
6. The title: Well, as you're probably all aware, the title puns on the following verse from the Bible: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14 This verse refers to the coming of Jesus Christ. God makes a promise to his people that a savior will be born, and thus the Word (promise/prophecy) is made flesh. The ML writers turn this around...John Wicklow takes a flesh-and-blood woman (Mary...hmmm) and turns her into words in his journal. And she interprets his words as a promise to love and care for her--he becomes her "savior" when he takes the rap for killing her husband. Very clever. But, as usual, I think there's more going on here, having to do with promises that have been made, unmade, and not made. Conventionally, two people meet, fall in love, promise to "have and hold" each other, and then have children, whom they promise to care for. Well, David and Maddie met, fell in love....and then all H-E-double-toothpicks breaks out, and the promises they should have made to each other are instead, made to other people (David never makes a specific promise to Terri, but the potential is there). Now they are at a crossroads--all the tangled skeins have been unwound, and they have a second chance. Whether or not they're both still willing is in question. However, I think the last scene leads us to believe that there is the promise of a future for them (and I hope I'm not getting blasphemous here)...a promise represented by the (writers') Word made flesh, in the person of little Baby Hayes. Which is why I find AWWAV so upsetting...but that's a conversation for another time.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:21:24 GMT -5
3: As we listen in on their thoughts in the car we hear David and Maddie think, “Things are different now, but they’re still the same.” Does this revelation mean the same thing to Maddie and David? I feel yes because it was the same scenario but they played different roles; reversed roles. Maddie pushing for David to see things her way and commit; David reluctant and resisting.
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Post by jpen on Mar 10, 2009 19:25:13 GMT -5
I am going to digress a little from the questions.......Lord knows we NEVER hijack these threads....hahaha! Jen's great follow-up story last week reminded me of an exercise a bunch of us did way back years ago. We did "Alphabet Moonlighting" -- we chose a letter of the alphabet and a word, and wrote a one or two page vignette. Cut to the chase....one of those I wrote years ago is what I called a "missing scene" in "The Flesh Was Made Word". Just in case anybody wants to take a look, I posted it on Fanfiction.net. And please be gentle -- it was written about 7 or 8 years ago. It's called "Deny" www.fanfiction.net/s/4915448/1/DenyAnd it ain't just a river in Egypt...this is very David (shows that sometimes he too can play the Avoidance Game! --and answers my question as to when in the heck he had time to buy all that stuff! ;D BTW, are there more of these somewhere? They'd be fun to read...
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:27:41 GMT -5
7). Do you think Maddie fully realizes how badly she hurt David? Maybe at the moment he gives her the clean slate talk, maybe...I say that because she has no idea what David's been through since she's left. The fact she sits there and takes it is another indication to me...her shock is evident. I think it takes most of the episode for her to realize the extent of his pain, he's rubbed dry...he's just not the same David.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:31:27 GMT -5
6. The title: Well, as you're probably all aware, the title puns on the following verse from the Bible: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14 This verse refers to the coming of Jesus Christ. God makes a promise to his people that a savior will be born, and thus the Word (promise/prophecy) is made flesh. The ML writers turn this around...John Wicklow takes a flesh-and-blood woman (Mary...hmmm) and turns her into words in his journal. And she interprets his words as a promise to love and care for her--he becomes her "savior" when he takes the rap for killing her husband. Very clever. But, as usual, I think there's more going on here, having to do with promises that have been made, unmade, and not made. Conventionally, two people meet, fall in love, promise to "have and hold" each other, and then have children, whom they promise to care for. Well, David and Maddie met, fell in love....and then all H-E-double-toothpicks breaks out, and the promises they should have made to each other are instead, made to other people (David never makes a specific promise to Terri, but the potential is there). Now they are at a crossroads--all the tangled skeins have been unwound, and they have a second chance. Whether or not they're both still willing is in question. However, I think the last scene leads us to believe that there is the promise of a future for them (and I hope I'm not getting blasphemous here)...a promise represented by the (writers') Word made flesh, in the person of little Baby Hayes. Which is why I find AWWAV so upsetting...but that's a conversation for another time. All I can say is ...Bravo JPen....Bravo!!!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Mar 10, 2009 19:37:59 GMT -5
I am going to digress a little from the questions.......Lord knows we NEVER hijack these threads....hahaha! Jen's great follow-up story last week reminded me of an exercise a bunch of us did way back years ago. We did "Alphabet Moonlighting" -- we chose a letter of the alphabet and a word, and wrote a one or two page vignette. Cut to the chase....one of those I wrote years ago is what I called a "missing scene" in "The Flesh Was Made Word". Just in case anybody wants to take a look, I posted it on Fanfiction.net. And please be gentle -- it was written about 7 or 8 years ago. It's called "Deny" www.fanfiction.net/s/4915448/1/DenyThat was kool
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Post by manitobadesigner on Mar 10, 2009 19:38:28 GMT -5
9: Do you feel Maddie jumps too quickly into thinking David is ready to jump right back into their relationship now that she annulled her marriage to Walter? Do you feel David's backing down is to hurt Maddie or is he still so hurt that he feels he can't trust Maddie and the thought of a having relationship with her? Do we feel he is right to act the way he does towards her?
Yes! Absolutely - I'm very put off by her "Mmkay, let go and hang out at some laundromats tonight!" attitude. Perhaps she felt that it was the only way to win David back, by being so available and willing. When they got together she was fighting it every step of the way, and David was hurt by her non-committal attitude. Maybe she thought, 'Hey, I want to let him know that if he wants me, he's got me." But her attitude whether completely oblivious to David's feelings, which I don't think she totally was, or if it was indeed a strategy to get back on his good side, her timing was terrible. She should have apologized wholeheartedly and talked with him before ever attempting to revisit the idea of a committed relationship, which they'd never truly had anyway! David is completely entitled to blast anger and feel hurt because of her actions.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Mar 10, 2009 19:43:06 GMT -5
6. The title: Well, as you're probably all aware, the title puns on the following verse from the Bible: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth."–John 1:14 This verse refers to the coming of Jesus Christ. God makes a promise to his people that a savior will be born, and thus the Word (promise/prophecy) is made flesh. The ML writers turn this around...John Wicklow takes a flesh-and-blood woman (Mary...hmmm) and turns her into words in his journal. And she interprets his words as a promise to love and care for her--he becomes her "savior" when he takes the rap for killing her husband. Very clever. But, as usual, I think there's more going on here, having to do with promises that have been made, unmade, and not made. Conventionally, two people meet, fall in love, promise to "have and hold" each other, and then have children, whom they promise to care for. Well, David and Maddie met, fell in love....and then all H-E-double-toothpicks breaks out, and the promises they should have made to each other are instead, made to other people (David never makes a specific promise to Terri, but the potential is there). Now they are at a crossroads--all the tangled skeins have been unwound, and they have a second chance. Whether or not they're both still willing is in question. However, I think the last scene leads us to believe that there is the promise of a future for them (and I hope I'm not getting blasphemous here)...a promise represented by the (writers') Word made flesh, in the person of little Baby Hayes. Which is why I find AWWAV so upsetting...but that's a conversation for another time. Geez, jpen, that was awesome! I did not know the exact origin of the title of the EP. You always have great analysis that makes me think of the subtext in a more reveletory way. I am SO gonna use this phrase all week: "all the tangled skeins" - Love it!
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