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Post by diane on Feb 24, 2009 18:30:50 GMT -5
Welcome to tonight’s discussion of my choice of most underrated episode, “Atlas Belched”.
I have to apologize as I am operating under an impediment tonight. I took out my DVD and popped it in, and my DVD player revolted – “This disc cannot be played”. Upon examination, it appears that the disc has been abused by some sort of wild animal……never lend your ML DVDs to any trusted family member who has a dog who will eat anything!!!
So I am working from a script copy, which is not completely true to the aired version – particularly the stairs scene….sigh!
So I am going to keep the questions minimal and hope some of you will jump in with some of your own……..
OK, here goes:
As has been discussed many times before, the title comes from the novel “Atlas Shrugged” by Ayn Rand. It is a tale based on the philosophy of objectivism which relies heavily on the concept of individualism and a belief that work is one of the ways to make a person valuable to society. The hero of the novel, John Galt, grows tired of being like everyone else and vows to stop the engines of the world.
The title of her book comes from the following passage contained in the novel....
""Mr. Rearden," said Francisco, his voice solemnly calm, "if you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of this strength, and the greater his effort, the heavier the world bore down on his shoulders – what would you tell him to do?"
"I … don't know. What … could he do? What would you tell him?"
"To shrug."
Two questions come to mind:
1. How does Phil West fit into this description? How does David? Or how about Maddie?
2. Why in the ML version does Atlas “Belch”?
Ok….more:
3. Was Maddie really under the illusion that David would accept her news well, or was her breakfast attempt designed to snow him…a flirtation? Or was she snowing herself?
4. Maddie describes her first response to Lew LaSalle as YAY (from the script)……was her response YAY as in yes (yea)…. Or YAY as in hooray?
5 Is David’s reaction to Maddie’s news anger or disappointment?
6. What do you think of the “buddy” images sprinkled throughout the episode? Do you think this episode might have spurred the decision to get David a sidekick in season 3……aka Herbert?
7. How would you describe Maddie and David’s relationship as we begin this episode (from each one’s point of view)? Is there a change by the end?
8. Let’s just slobber over the scene on the stairs, shall we?
That’s it for me. Please add any questions you think are pertinent.
I’m going to wait and post my answers until most of you get a shot, because, as I think you all have probably read before, the scene on the stairs is my favorite “Maddie” scene of the entire series, and I have waxed poetic about it many times.
Have fun.
diane
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 18:55:47 GMT -5
Great googly moogly...DVD on the fritz! Crank up the VCR!
Anyhow, I actually am one of those who underrated this episode. I haven't seen it in quite some time, and found myself really really liking it. Cybill looked dynamite, and proved in the shots without the gauze filter why she was one of the loveliest ladies on the planet. Dave was suave and debonair. The plot was interesting, the writing up to its usual high standards, heck, what's NOT to like.
Anyway, onto the questions.
1. How does Phil West fit into this description? How does David?
Both are Atlas in their own ways, and both wind up fed up to HERE at different points.
Phil was a vital cog in the Wellman enterprise, keeping the contacts well oiled, the meetings met, the high level muckety mucks engaged. Without him, the grease was gone and you had metal on metal, bone on bone. Things would continue, but this one, seemingly minute loss, would have significant repercussions, if not remedied.
David, as we know, was the Sisyphus pushing Blue Moon constantly up the hill. Without him the agency would have closed months before (of course, it would have probably MADE money years before…but I digress). Dave kept Maddie going, kept the wobblies wobbling, kept Agnes rhyming and kept plugging away, out there, trying to keep the agency on solid footing.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:13:53 GMT -5
2. Why in the ML version does Atlas “Belch”?
I figure that he just had enough. Six years of putting his life and soul into something for no reward, for no recognition. Figuring he was not appreciated. I think this was slightly contradicted by Wellman later in the show however, as he did indeed know that West had never taken a sick day. It really didn't amount to much though.
The final straw was seeing his replacements being interviewed. After all that, he was seen as a replacement part....expendible. That sent him off the deep end.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:19:42 GMT -5
3. Was Maddie really under the illusion that David would accept her news well, or was her breakfast attempt designed to snow him…a flirtation? Or was she snowing herself?
There was NO way that David was EVER going to take this well. Maddie was obviously living a fantasy here thinking that some picnic food on a desk was going to sway dear old Dave to seeing things her way. Nope, this was for her benefit only. I know it was necessary to set the conditions for the episode, but I can’t believe she thought Dave was going to fall for this trick.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:29:17 GMT -5
7. How would you describe Maddie and David’s relationship as we begin this episode (from each one’s point of view)? Is there a change by the end?
I really think this is a watershed episode. At the beginning, Maddie sees David and the gang as just employees, necessities of business. By the end, she realizes that Blue Moon is not just a place she spends time…it has become part of HER. She is a Private Investigator doggone it, and, although admittedly not a very good one, that is what she is. When she asks David to hire her with Addison Investigations, she realizes that it is not the 9 to 5 that gets her motor running, it is the banter, the impossible situations, the peeking in windows, the jumping from rooftops that tunes her fork.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:30:57 GMT -5
8. Let’s just slobber over the scene on the stairs, shall we?
GREAT scene. The thing that gets me is how genuinely real the smiles seem to be. Similar to the “Hi” at the front door in “Symphony in Knocked Flat”. Oh yeah, NO SOFT FOCUS LENS.
NOTE: Sorry to be rapid firing the answers here folks, but I have a potential conflict and didn't want to miss out.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:40:22 GMT -5
6. What do you think of the “buddy” images sprinkled throughout the episode? Do you think this episode might have spurred the decision to get David a sidekick in season 3……aka Herbert?
Interesting concept and one I had not thought of previously. But you know, I can see your point. I am sure that even by this time, the producers realized the need to bring in a few more characters to lessen the load on Bruce and Cybill. Of course, they never DID bring in a sidekick for Maddie, well, not until Annie. Yeah, I know, she and Agnes had some moments, but not the amount of screen time that Dave and Bert did.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 19:47:07 GMT -5
4. Maddie describes her first response to Lew LaSalle as YAY (from the script)……was her response YAY as in yes (yea)…. Or YAY as in hooray?
I kinda got from the way she said the word that she was torn between saying Yes and Nay. Maddie always seemed to go back and forth with her feelings about the agency. From wanting to close it in the pilot to giving it a shot. From wanting free of it by trying to get her money back in Rio to working a caseload on her own. From wishing she had never kept it open to revelations shown by her guardian angel.
You know, I think this is probably common with folks who have had a career change. I know it has me. I had a GREAT first career, and have a wonderful one as well now. There are times that I wish the first had never ended, but then later on, when the din dies down a bit, I realize that there is a time for everything, and what has transpired has been for the best.
Maddie feels the same way. She was a great model, and enjoyed her sleeping, shopping, going out life, but she kinda likes her new life as well, only sometimes she doesn’t always realize it.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 24, 2009 19:52:16 GMT -5
1. How does Phil West fit into this description? How does David?Both are Atlas in their own ways, and both wind up fed up to HERE at different points. Phil was a vital cog in the Wellman enterprise, keeping the contacts well oiled, the meetings met, the high level muckety mucks engaged. Without him, the grease was gone and you had metal on metal, bone on bone. Things would continue, but this one, seemingly minute loss, would have significant repercussions, if not remedied. David, as we know, was the Sisyphus pushing Blue Moon constantly up the hill. Without him the agency would have closed months before (of course, it would have probably MADE money years before…but I digress). Dave kept Maddie going, kept the wobblies wobbling, kept Agnes rhyming and kept plugging away, out there, trying to keep the agency on solid footing. I think graycav is right on with this one. Both Phil and David play an integral role in keeping their organizations functioning. Maddie too is critical - not in the way David is, but as the owner who keeps Blue Moon open. Her business supports not only David and Maddie, but all of the wobblies. When she "belches" however, divesting herself of the business, the Blue Moon family falls apart. It's only when she is no longer carrying the weight of the agency that she realizes that it is actually Blue Moon, David and all of the others who are supporting her and giving her a reason to get up every day.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 24, 2009 20:03:15 GMT -5
3. In her heart of hearts, there is no way that Maddie could believe that David would welcome the news. As she tells David of Lou LaSalle's offer, however, she seems really upbeat and tells David that she has good news. It's almost as if she is trying to delude herself that this will be a great move. Of course, she is under the impression that everyone would stay on at Blue Moon and things would continue to operate as usual. I don't think she fully realized what changes her decision would unleash.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 24, 2009 20:11:56 GMT -5
4. Maddie describes her first response to Lew LaSalle as YAY (from the script)……was her response YAY as in yes (yea)…. Or YAY as in hooray? Thinking about this scene, I took Maddie's YAY as hooray. Lou LaSalle had called her the day before and I think she was giddy about the thought of finally finding a way to put an end to her money worries. It's the same way that she took off for Buenos Aires without thinking the whole thing through. She is high on the prospect of becoming financially secure without regard to anyone else.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 24, 2009 20:13:40 GMT -5
5. Is David’s reaction to Maddie’s news anger or disappointment?
Both. I mean, what else can the guy possibly do to make it clear to blondie blonde that they can make it work…that Blue Moon can be a successful enterprise that she can be proud to own. He is ticked that she made the decision…he is disheartened that she even considered it in the first place.
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Post by diane on Feb 24, 2009 20:23:16 GMT -5
5. Is David’s reaction to Maddie’s news anger or disappointment?Both. I mean, what else can the guy possibly do to make it clear to blondie blonde that they can make it work…that Blue Moon can be a successful enterprise that she can be proud to own. He is ticked that she made the decision…he is disheartened that she even considered it in the first place. What a perfect way to explain it, Gray. To me, one sentence sums it all up......when David says, "I hate that you're doing this." Not that it is stupid, or a bad business decision....but his comment is unchecked emotion, saying it all.
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Post by jpen on Feb 24, 2009 20:24:15 GMT -5
1. How does Phil West fit into this description? How does David?Both are Atlas in their own ways, and both wind up fed up to HERE at different points. Phil was a vital cog in the Wellman enterprise, keeping the contacts well oiled, the meetings met, the high level muckety mucks engaged. Without him, the grease was gone and you had metal on metal, bone on bone. Things would continue, but this one, seemingly minute loss, would have significant repercussions, if not remedied. David, as we know, was the Sisyphus pushing Blue Moon constantly up the hill. Without him the agency would have closed months before (of course, it would have probably MADE money years before…but I digress). Dave kept Maddie going, kept the wobblies wobbling, kept Agnes rhyming and kept plugging away, out there, trying to keep the agency on solid footing. Nice one, graycav. Totally agree...and you get extra points for the thematic avatar and further mythology references!! (Sorry--once a teacher, always a teacher...) As for question #2...Why in the ML version does Atlas "belch"? Well, first of all, it's obviously meant to be a funny twist on the novel's title, and bodily functions are always good for a chuckle; then, too, the result of Atlas "belching" in this episode is less catastrophic for the world at large than the result of the Captains of Industry striking in the novel. Then, too (and I could be reaching here), there could be a play on the culture differences between Maddie and David. In Maddie's world, Atlas might shrug, but in David's...well, you get the idea.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 24, 2009 20:30:25 GMT -5
5 Is David’s reaction to Maddie’s news anger or disappointment? I think David is hurt to the core and he is shattered for several reasons. First of all, the business had begun to make money and he feels that they are a great team that can succeed in business. So, this move comes from out of left field. Secondly, he feels that they have become close and can't believe that Maddie can throw everything away so easily ("Is that all the last ten months have been about - business?"). His feelings don't even matter to her and she seems to have made her decision without even consulting him. Seems a bit reminiscent of that cold, callous b**** that he met back on Day 1. Was he angry? Sure was. He was livid.
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