graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 17, 2009 20:08:45 GMT -5
10. The final question is in the last scene, Maddie presents David with paper work for the partnership buy-in. Does Maddie's suggestive attitude entice viewers to believe she's making an effort to continue a sexual relationship with David? Ohhhhhh yeahhhhhh!! At least I hope so. Heck, if I got that offer, by the time negotiations were concluded she would have owed ME money. And yes, I AM that good. Well, at least I wuz...
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Post by diane on Feb 17, 2009 20:09:04 GMT -5
Before I answer the questions.....I'd like to take you back to those thrilling days of yesteryear -- the 80's-- and how this episode relates. Since some of you were wee children, or perhaps not even wee yet, I wanted to touch on the episode's relevance.
Watching it today, it suddenly seemed very dated to me, but this was a huge topic when it was aired. While women had been burning their bras for a bit before this, the need for equality in the workplace was trickling down to all, and was a hot topic. Ah, the age of enlightenment was coming!
Interesting that the episode was written by a man, Roger Director, one of the writers who had been around for some time. As has been said, there are some great Addison lines in the episode, In fact, in my opinion, the viewpoint here, in spite of the way it ended, is more male than female. But the great Maddie Pink Panther scene almost makes up for that......
I think I need to go back to the questions.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 17, 2009 20:13:49 GMT -5
Watching it today, it suddenly seemed very dated to me, but this was a huge topic when it was aired. Agree Diane. Seeing Miss Fuller walk in with a lit cigarette (horrors!), mentions about the Equal Rights Ammendment, the entire debate about sexual harassment in the workplace...it did transport me back as well. Looks like we've made great strides in some ways, and have a ways to go in others.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Feb 17, 2009 20:14:56 GMT -5
10. The final question is…in the last scene, Maddie presents David with paper work for the partnership buy-in. Does Maddie’s suggestive attitude entice viewers to believe she’s making an effort to continue a sexual relationship with David?This scene reminded me of the 'I see England I See France..." tease scene at the end with David's funereal directives. At the time it aired, I was 14 and thought then, that it was a cheap ploy to make us believe that David and Maddie still had a chance at a sexual relationship. I could see Maddie loosening up by season 5 and putting in something dirty in the contract, but I never assumed that this was a sign that they would ever be horizontal again.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:16:37 GMT -5
Do you feel that the “shirts and skins” attitude has always been an underlying situation at Blue Moon (fictionally, we’ve already had the literal discussion) or is this a new thing for them? I never really thought there was much of a gender war among the staff. Perhaps some little things here and there, but mostly they were a neutral group, united in their shared quest to avoid toil and gain financial reward. They are probably all now senior executives in Wall Street firms. LOL, I agree Gray, they were a neutral group really into "no work for pay", this is a new thing for them IMO.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 17, 2009 20:21:18 GMT -5
Do David and Maddie really go too far to prove a point to each other? If so, how?
I don't feel that they went too far on this one. Let's remember who we are talking about here. These are the two who put on a black dress and veil to get to the bottom of the masked lady mystery. AND the two who trolled through LA trying to find Mrs. Right for Mr. Tupperman. No, this is just about par for the course when it comes to competition between D and M.
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Post by diane on Feb 17, 2009 20:25:17 GMT -5
Dang it.....I just typed a lengthy response to question number 1, and the computer logged me....and IT....out. So I try again.
1. At the beginning of the episode, Bert is supportive of Agnes’ attitude towards MacGillicudy’s request for Jamie to “freshen” his coffee. What transpires that changes Bert’s attitude? Is this change genuine?
I can't improve on the spot on analysis of Bert's actions, but I would like to talk a little bit about Bert and Agnes's relationship.
I think the reason why it works is because Agnes knows and understands Bert. She gets that he is a strange little guy with a big mouth who aspires to be David's loyal sidekick, and constantly practices oneupmanship on the other guys in the office.
She knows that his act is full of baloney, but that he has a huge heart, and probably doesn't mean half of what he says to fit in. She accepts him -- quirks, flaws, faults -- and lets him have his office persona because she knows the real guy who will be coming home to her at the end of the day.
Quite the antithesis of our other twosome.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:25:28 GMT -5
Since, thanks for these thought-provoking questions...and BTW, love the new signature! David's look when he says "peon" is just priceless! Hope it's ok that I'm jumping in a bit early...it happens to be momentarily quiet around these here parts... 1. At the beginning of the episode, Bert is supportive of Agnes’ attitude towards MacGillicudy’s request for Jamie to “freshen” his coffee. What transpires that changes Bert’s attitude? Is this change genuine? I think Bert is prompted to do an apparent about-face for two reasons: MacGillicudy's crack about "who wears the panties"; and more importantly, his respect for (OK, idolization of) David. Bertie loves to feel like he's David's right-hand guy, and if Coach Addison needs the support of his "shirts," Bert's gonna be right in there, hacking into computer systems and making game-time speeches. Yeah, MacGillicudy ripped him a new one with that and Bert probably felt MacG would tell David, lol (as they tattled often)
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Post by lin212 on Feb 17, 2009 20:30:54 GMT -5
About the cease fire - I think that David does extend an olive branch in a way when he invites Maddie to dinner. I never thought that he had ulterior motives when I watched the scene. I liked his line about the whole thing being fun. I do feel, however, that Maddie never would have considered breaking into his office if he had not come across as so confident in his ability to win the case. That really raised her suspicions and curiosity - she just couldn't let it go.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:32:38 GMT -5
OKay, here are the questions folks...
1. At the beginning of the episode, Bert is supportive of Agnes’ attitude towards MacGillicudy’s request for Jamie to “freshen” his coffee. What transpires that changes Bert’s attitude? Is this change genuine?
Bert is straddling both sides of the fence here. His need to "one up" MacG, as so aptly described, basically set him up to later put his foot in his mouth. I agree there is not necessarily a change but more of an issue of "How do I impress Mr. Addison, stay out of the dog house and look better than MacG at the same time?" Bert's attempt to "multitask" puts him in quite a position til David squashes the whole thing.
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Post by diane on Feb 17, 2009 20:33:51 GMT -5
Why does David automatically assume to drag the Wobblies into their battle? What does it say about David’s POV in this episode towards women, based on his choice for “shirts”? Does this differ from the David Addison of the previous 4 seasons?
David always plays with the team....but this is actually the only time he has gotten them to take sides, I believe. I think, given the "cease fire", he is not so happy that they did.
David has his office persona as well...and although he talks a big game, he has always treated the women he interacts with with respect and caring. I always loved the way he interacted with Kathleen, the leprechaun -- sweet and understanding instead of writing her off as a fruit loop. There are many other examples.
As far as "shirts' and skins" totally predictable that David would label the women's team "skins"
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:37:37 GMT -5
1. At the beginning of the episode, Bert is supportive of Agnes’ attitude towards MacGillicudy’s request for Jamie to “freshen” his coffee. What transpires that changes Bert’s attitude? Is this change genuine? I can't improve on the spot on analysis of Bert's actions, but I would like to talk a little bit about Bert and Agnes's relationship. She knows that his act is full of baloney, but that he has a huge heart, and probably doesn't mean half of what he says to fit in. Agnes definitely sees his vulnerability and loves Bert for it.
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:41:00 GMT -5
About the cease fire - I think that David does extend an olive branch in a way when he invites Maddie to dinner. I never thought that he had ulterior motives when I watched the scene. I liked his line about the whole thing being fun. I do feel, however, that Maddie never would have considered breaking into his office if he had not come across as so confident in his ability to win the case. That really raised her suspicions and curiosity - she just couldn't let it go. Lin, I hear ya but his dinner proposition puts me in the mind of David in MHGM when he knew Maddie had a lunch date and "proposed" lunch to lure further information about meeting "hubby" out of her.
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Post by diane on Feb 17, 2009 20:44:36 GMT -5
Do David and Maddie really go too far to prove a point to each other? If so, how?
When don't David and Maddie go too far to prove a point?
In life, the person who challenges you...who makes you go farther than you ever thought would be possible...is usually the person who brings out the very best...and the very worst in you.
David lies, Maddie breaks and enters......I think part of what is shown here is that, had they been working together, they probably would have been able to overcome the unethical, and solved the problem...if not harmoniously, then at least legally!
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Post by sinceifell4u on Feb 17, 2009 20:47:12 GMT -5
2. What does it say about David’s POV in this episode towards women, based on his choice for “shirts”? Does this differ from the David Addison of the previous 4 seasons?David's choice for shirts is hilarious to me because of the visual it provides. In a basketball game with guys, they usually do this ... the fact he calls shirts leaves the females in a quite a position... giving this "pick up game" visual to the audience. Although David is sweet with the ladies, he does have this way of "appreciating" the female anatomy. I also think that he knew it would fuel the fire with Maddie.
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