gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 19:45:58 GMT -5
You know, as funny as the intro is, it does kind of a disservice to the episode, because it contradicts information that's implied by David Jr.: David Sr.'s been lonely for a while, meaning his wife has been gone for a while. Or at least that's how I see it. Were we ever given any information about David's mother outside of what we learn in this teaser? And graycav, thanks so much for sharing--you drew a very thoughtful picture of a father-son relationship not unlike the one between the two Davids. Very nice.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 19:51:53 GMT -5
6. Why do you think Maddie is so curious about the woman David’s father is going to marry?
Hey, like father, like son. I figure Maddie would want to know about his father’s soon to be wife to get an idea on what Dave Jr would be looking for in a mate. She could cross reference this with here own ideas and form a more solid opinion on where SHE stood in the Addison sweepstakes.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 19:56:22 GMT -5
7. Once Maddie fully understood what the situation was with David and Stephanie, do you feel she was sympathetic and really tried to help him through this crisis of his or do you think she just did not understand him?
I think this was Maddie at her most decisive. She was clear headed and knew that immediate action was required to defuse this time bomb. She was realistic…Dave would have to suck it up (quit smiling girls) and let that fling live in the past, where it belongs. The only way for this situation to work would be for him to put it aside, for the good of his relationship with his father, their marriage and really, to recapture some respect with Maddie…who I think at this point is really, really ticked at him.
What was her motivation for telling David he was being selfish, inconsiderate and childish?
She felt, and rightly so, that it was the best way for Dave to stop thinking of himself and consider what is right by his father. David HATES being considered the selfish, inconsiderate and childish one. A GREAT move by blondie.
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Post by lin212 on Feb 3, 2009 20:06:48 GMT -5
4) David lying to Maddie about spending the evening with his father -
I believe that this scene is a turning point in their relationship. We see David with his game face on. He wants Maddie to believe that everything is great, that he is foot loose and fancy free, with no baggage and not a care in the world. When Maddie tells him that his father is in his office, it's as if the entire facade falls away. Apparently, David has some painful memories of his youth and his relationship with his father and he allows Maddie to see that part of him. I know that he revealed some things about himself in Season 2, but somehow this is different. It feels deeper - which brings me to another point, a slight digression.
It seems to me that the main thrust of Season 3 is the development of David and Maddie's personal relationship. Most of the episodes have one or the other sharing parts of their past, their inner thoughts, beliefs, fears. Little by little each one opens up to the other, whether it is about spontaneity and passion, Maddie's frustration with the men in her life and her search for romance, David's marriage, religion, death. All of it leads us to IACM.
Sorry - I guess I went off on a small tangent. Back to the questions at hand.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 20:08:46 GMT -5
7. Once Maddie fully understood what the situation was with David and Stephanie, do you feel she was sympathetic and really tried to help him through this crisis of his or do you think she just did not understand him ? OK, I'm answering this one first. IMO, Maddie does not understand jack about the predicament David is in, and, most of all, she doesn't even make an effort to understand what David is telling her. a) The bathroom scene: David BEGS her to stay with him. He needs her. David is a fragile man, I'll state it to death. He needs an emotional crutch every time he has to come to grips with painful situations (see Maddie's marriage and the role played by Terri in that circumstance). In this scene, David has to face his father. He has to respond for his odd behavior, but he feels totally helpless, unable to defend himself. Almost like a little child. David knows his father, he knows he would behave aggressively and hastily toward him. He knows his father is too big a menace to him. So, what does he do? He asks (begs) for Maddie's help, the lady he loves more than life itself, hoping that this time at least he would be a match for his father. And what does she do? SHE LEAVES!! What kind of woman would do that? What about Love? Where did her love go? I totally disapprove Maddie's behavior here. b) At the office, the day after... One word: Remorse. Maddie cries over spilled milk. Too late, lady! David needed you yesterday!! c) The garage: Again, Maddie doesn't understand David. Does she even TRY to? No. She just IMPOSES her point of view ("That was one night, this is a marriage...If she loves him, none of that matters...") on him. I mean, the first thing a person should do in such predicaments is LISTEN to what the troubled soul is telling ya!! BUT... D & M interaction is far more complex here. Obviously, Maddie...is JEALOUS! She sure is not eager to listen to all that stuff about Stephanie!! Not a smart move, Dave!! So she leaves him there, derelict. And...IT WORKS! Her contempt gets him to shake his self-pity off. He reacts. He takes a shower, slips into a tux and goes to Maddie's to pick her up, willing to attend his father's wedding. "Can I borrow a cup of pride?", he asks her. She spurred him on. But she accomplishes the task involuntarily. It is HIM who reacts, it is HIM who listens to her words and profits from them. His strength of will. That's what bails him out. Conclusion: IMO, Maddie did not move a finger to help David out of that mess, for two reasons: 1- Lack of empathy/ inability to listen; 2- Jealousy. P.S. Sorry about the delay, I got lost in Tony's posts...
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 20:11:47 GMT -5
I completely agree. I think season three is the best ML has to offer, and I think that's because it has a definite, almost completely uninterrupted, arc: Maddie and David finally allowing themselves to listen to their hearts (for lack of a less cheesy expression) and persue a real romantic relationship. It's all about that initial spark they felt--that initial attraction-coupled-with-irritation--developing into something much deeper, much more loving. It's amazing to watch, because the writing and acting are just so great. They work together so beautifully to convey the story. What was that about tangents, lin?
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Post by jpen on Feb 3, 2009 20:12:39 GMT -5
4) David lying to Maddie about spending the evening with his father - I believe that this scene is a turning point in their relationship. We see David with his game face on. He wants Maddie to believe that everything is great, that he is foot loose and fancy free, with no baggage and not a care in the world. When Maddie tells him that his father is in his office, it's as if the entire facade falls away. Apparently, David has some painful memories of his youth and his relationship with his father and he allows Maddie to see that part of him. I know that he revealed some things about himself in Season 2, but somehow this is different. It feels deeper - which brings me to another point, a slight digression. It seems to me that the main thrust of Season 3 is the development of David and Maddie's personal relationship. Most of the episodes have one or the other sharing parts of their past, their inner thoughts, beliefs, fears. Little by little each one opens up to the other, whether it is about spontaneity and passion, Maddie's frustration with the men in her life and her search for romance, David's marriage, religion, death. All of it leads us to IACM. Sorry - I guess I went off on a small tangent. Back to the questions at hand. I agree about the facade falling away--he's caught, and he knows it. And I think your observation about the theme of S3 is totally relevant...hey, the writers would probably kiss you for connecting the dots like that, given their slight allergy to continuity!
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 20:16:13 GMT -5
This is kind of off-topic (this whole post, actually), but did anyone else think that Maddie and David seemed very couple-ish in this episode? Almost like they were married. David was dependent on Maddie (even consulting her during the wedding, to see if he should forever hold his peace), and Maddie was there for David, emotionally. They were both very sweet to each other--their relationship seems to have matured. I liked it. ;D Wonderful observation gorky and I must agree. There was a definite couples vibe in this episode. Good catch.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 20:19:12 GMT -5
2. What do you think of Maddie’s little smile when she awakens? Contrast this look with the look she has when she enters the office after the wobblies.She's happy to get back to work because her life without Blue Moon is empty and shallow (gee, take a look at "Atlas Belched"!). Maddie loves her job (see "Witness For The Execution": who the hell loves Mondays??? : . But being a detective is not the only thing she loves....Gee whiz, she also loves David!!! And can't wait to see him again.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 20:19:24 GMT -5
6. Why do you think Maddie is so curious about the woman David’s father is going to marry?I think, since David's named after his father, there's an implicit belief that the two men are alike. The mere fact that they're related indicates that they may have similar tastes. I think that Maddie is interested to see the woman David Sr.'s marrying because it will, in some way, reveal the kind of woman David Jr. would like to marry. Gorky I HONESTLY did not steal your post when I answered this question....I was just typing them and jamming them in when I completed one. Pretty cool how we came up with the same view of this question, eh?
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Post by lin212 on Feb 3, 2009 20:20:31 GMT -5
5) The relationship between the Addison men-
Graycav, you really nailed this one. Spot on. Thanks too for the personal touch. I can imagine both sons seeking Dad's approval and trying to gain his attention, but Dad was busy supporting his family and keeping his business afloat. We know that Richie was the favorite one and I can imagine him lording that over David. Somehow David strikes me as the one who was always getting in trouble and exasperating dear old Dad.
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graycav56
3rd Level
I can't imagine not rewatching with you next week.
Posts: 948
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Post by graycav56 on Feb 3, 2009 20:25:02 GMT -5
If you don't mind, I'm going to run with this comment: Because I meant to mention this in one of my previous posts: the garage scene, in this episode, really does parallel the late-night scene between Maddie and David in "Blonde on Blonde". Only thing is, the roles are reversed. In this episode, Maddie doesn't want to think about David's past flings--at least not in any concrete, flesh and blood way--but he's forcing this information on her, and she's shocked, I think, by the vehemence of her response. I think it's physically paining her to picture David with another woman, especially when--like you said, jpen--he clearly enjoyed himself. It's the same thing in BoB: David doesn't want to consider the possibility that Maddie could want another person, need another person; he wants to be it for her, the same way she (eventually) wants to be it for him. BINGO, gorky!! I felt the same way--and I love these parallels! Gosh, these writers are GOOD. However, I think we feel more sympathy for David's reaction in BoB, for two reasons: in this ep, David is talking about something that happened years ago (before he even met Maddie), while Maddie wants to pursue a random man, even as David is aching for her! Additionally, after BMOMS and IAWJ their relationship has progressed, and it (should be) becoming more clear to both of them that there are some kind of romantic feelings there...OK, I'm heading seriously off-topic here--shall we go back to the "End Scene" thread? I think this is a first...a triple quote for the board. This is absolutely SPOT ON! The role reversal here between BoB and this episode works perfectly, where it most certainly did NOT in the entire Annie thread. I am a mere amateur in a league with professionals.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Feb 3, 2009 20:28:41 GMT -5
3. Do you think Maddie spent her entire vacation in New York? And did she enjoy the time she was there? Did she actually meet up with friends and meet new ones? This is all speculation, I guess, but can be fun to think about!!Yes, she spent her entire vacation in NY. She got bored to death. Her life without David is like dancing without music. Did she meet up with old friends?? Hmm, maybe. Did she meet new ones? No way!!! She said it just to arouse David's curiosity...
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gorky
1st Level
Posts: 72
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Post by gorky on Feb 3, 2009 20:29:29 GMT -5
Heh, no worries, graycav--great minds and all. (Incidentally, it should be noted that your little avatar byline (can't think of a better term) is hilarious. It really is great getting a male perspective on these episodes. Although I think whoopie pies do have the power to cross gender lines, make us step back and see how much alike men and women really are.)
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Post by lin212 on Feb 3, 2009 20:32:16 GMT -5
gorky, great point about David and Maddie as a couple in this episode. They are so comfortable together heading to the engagement party and dancing at the wedding. I just love love that dance scene ("So, Ginger, tell Fred what's wrong.") Sigh...
Also, love the way they relate to each other at the beginning of the episosde- teasing each other, smiling, having a real conversation about David's Dad - it was so great to see them that way. Maddie seemed to enjoy David's antics, as if she finally truly appreciated his fun-loving ways.
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