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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:43:11 GMT -5
6. About David's behavior at the church: is he trying to make Maddie jealous?
No, I think he is really concerned about Terri. And I also think that his concern shows more depth in his character. Even though his life has gone crazy, he has not forgotten his commitment or obligation to Terri. She has been a really good friend for him.
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 20:45:04 GMT -5
6. About David's behavior at the church: is he trying to make Maddie jealous? I don't think so. To me, that kind of implies that David was using Terri--bringing her to the wedding because he knew Maddie would be ticked--and I don't think he meant to take advantage of her like that. However, I do think he's using her as a means to get over Maddie (not like that's better than using her to invoke jealousy; I'm just clarifyin' ). I think bringing Terri was actually more about David than it was about Maddie. I mean, look at that dinner scene between he and Terri earlier in the episode: David says he wants to spend more time with her, now that things are settling down. Really, what he wants is to forget Maddie. He's moving away from persuing a relationship with her (we see more of this later on in ATFWMW), because he's afraid of being hurt. So why not try this thing with Terri: she's nice, and sweet, and he genuinely does care for her. It's not love, it's not passion, but it's comfortable. You know, in a way, Terri is David's Walter. I'm sure I'm not the first person to make that observation, but I'll say it anyway. There are definite parallels you could draw there.
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Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 6, 2009 20:49:58 GMT -5
4. Why do you think Walter married Maddie? For one he just met her and he knew of all her baggage , such as David and the baby. When it all blows up at the end , do you feel bad for him or feel like he should have known this would happen? He married her because he was quite possibly just as lonely as Maddie felt at the time. Hi all, Happy New Year! I chose this question because I have the most difficult time answering it, but I'll give it a shot. I agree with bees, that it most likely has something to do with Walter's lonely life. I think on the surface he sees this gorgeous woman and thinks, "Could she really want someone like me?" He's probably never had the attention of such a beautiful woman, and my first impression when I watched it was that he saw an opening and just went for it. Sure, he saw the opening was junked up with...well, another man's baby, annnnd not to mention she still seems to be in love with that man. He's not blind or stupid, but foolish to think that he can perhaps get beyond that and get her to love only him. I don't feel sorry for Walter, because he knew what he was in for - if he didn't get it on the train, he sure got it when he met his competition!
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 20:51:38 GMT -5
Maddie has hurt him badly; she has made her proverbial bed, and he is going to make her lie in it--with a vengeance. She says she's "never been so happy" (the exact words, BTW, that David uses about their relationship in TttM)? Fine--let her prove it, in front of God and everybody. Exactly! Brilliant observation! Evening jpen! Yeah, with a vengeance! He ruined her marriage! He arranged every bit of it to make her uncomfortable! As for Maddie saying she's happy: she's lying...once again! Not just to David, but to herself too! She's not happy, she's just Avoiding, like bees said! IMO, Maddie is not sure of her feelings toward anybody at this point. The sequence that really makes the difference is the one taking place at the hospital. All that rage...That's the tool Maddie and David use to surface their true emotions (see IACM! ) But also, David has a healthy helping of PRIDE--they both do, which keeps each from giving an inch to the other. Of course David's hurt...but he's not going to admit it, not to Maddie, not to the Wobblies, not to Terri either ("She never got a glove on me"). Throwing this wedding is a very public way to say "I'm fine--nothin' wrong with me! I'm totally over it--and over her." Agreed, Dave has pride...But that's a good thing, don't you think? It means he still has got his dignity! This guy never admits anything to anybody. He's introverted. Oh, c'mon, don't frown! ;D He is! He's a fragile man! IMO. Yeah, I agree when you say that throwing the wedding is a public way to say he's over her... But HE'S NOT!! He acts just like Maddie does when she states she's happy with Walter. That's why these two kids make sparkles! They're kindred souls! ;D
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 20:51:38 GMT -5
7. What do you believe David's perception of Walter is? Does his perception remain the same or does it change in the course of the episode? If so, when?
I think David sees right away why Maddie ran to him. He knows Maddie better than she knows herself! He sees Walter as the guy that Maddie had been trying to turn him into the last 3 years at Blue Moon…..safe, reliable, dependable, etc.. And I think this further drives him crazy because he is the only one that knows what Maddie Hayes really needs…..spontaneity, walking barefoot, etc.. I think he realizes what a nice guy he is at the bachelor party. Seeing him sitting alone, not drinking and generally looking like he is out of place. But what does Walter do? He goes along with the joke and actually has a civil conversation with David. Also, I think he is really contemplating just exactly what he did wrong in the scene at Terri’s apt. He is very distracted and quiet the entire evening. Does he think he should have tried a little harder to be the man Maddie would want??…..nah!!
Have a question: What do you guys think David meant when he made a toast with Walter and says, “Here’s to the best laid plans”?
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Post by manitobadesigner on Jan 6, 2009 20:58:46 GMT -5
Maddie has hurt him badly; she has made her proverbial bed, and he is going to make her lie in it--with a vengeance. She says she's "never been so happy" (the exact words, BTW, that David uses about their relationship in TttM)? Fine--let her prove it, in front of God and everybody. Exactly! Brilliant observation! Evening jpen! I have to concur - BLAM jpen, you hit it right between the eyes! ;D I thought David's plan was brilliant, and possibly the only way he could have forced her hand. It just astounds me that after all the hurt that David's experienced, he put all that anger and hurt, and LOVE into his scheme - if he didn't care anymore he just would have walked away.
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Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 21:00:00 GMT -5
3. Correct me if I am wrong, but did she actually say to David that the baby was Sam's? He asked about Sam, but she told him Sam was none of his business. This is a great point, bees. She says: "It's not yours." Then David asks her, "Are you absolutely sure about that?" She answers: "I'm absolutely sure." I turned this question over and over in my mind, and watched the scenes from ToTC (her conversation with Walter on the train, and with David in her office) and MHGM repeatedly in preparation for writing "Breathing Lessons." My own feeling is that she's not "absolutely sure," but she believes what Dr. Hill told her, enough to make her feel like she can't hold David to the responsibility of being the father. And it seemed to me (though this could've been me projecting that there's a tiny edge of regret in the flatness of her voice when she says, "It's not yours." Her speech at the end of this episode just rings so true to me...she is (finally) laying it on the line here, and I think seeing David with Terri makes her realize what she's given up--David would be a wonderful father, she regrets pushing him away, regrets her marriage, and she really does wish "with her whole heart" that the baby was his, which would solve all those issues in one fell swoop. My heart just breaks for the both of them in this scene!
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Post by lin212 on Jan 6, 2009 21:03:54 GMT -5
2. Why do you think Maddie hasn't told her parents about Walter?
I so totally agree with you, bees. What Maddie did was so irrational that her parents would flip! I too think that Maddie didn't even give her parents a thought when it came to marrying Walter. But, come to think of it, it seems hard to believe that Maddie's mother wouldn't have called her to make sure that she got home OK, especially being pregnant and all. Imagine Walter answering the phone...LOL
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 21:05:34 GMT -5
I think that's a bit of a self-pitying assessment of how his relationship with Maddie worked out. The four months she was gone were absolute torture for David, but he thought he'd gotten to a point of such preparedness and maturity, that Maddie wouldn't be able to turn him down once she got back. But now here he is, getting drunk with Maddie's husband. That can't be what he counted on, making speeches to disgruntled fathers about the depth of his feelings and taking lamaze classes so he'd be prepared for Maddie's pregnancy. Some plan.
I guess it could also be a sneaky way of saying to Walter: Yup, buddy, this is all a big joke on the boss. It could be his way of copping to how transparent his motives are in throwing this wedding.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 21:07:12 GMT -5
Extra: David mentions the movie Play Misty For Me to Walter during their first talk in the office, Any thoughts on this movie in regards to the show/episode?
I think it was David's way of saving face with Walter. The movie is about a radio DJ and an obsessed fan. David was trying to make it seem like what he and Maddie had together was very one-sided, all Maddie's.
Anybody think that it was a reference to Maddie's infatuation with Paul the DJ in TNMYH? David loved Maddie then and she was "with" someone else......
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:10:26 GMT -5
4. Why do you think Walter married Maddie? For one he just met her and he knew of all her baggage , such as David and the baby. When it all blows up at the end , do you feel bad for him or feel like he should have known this would happen?
Well, I think Wally believed every word Maddie told him on that damn train. But she lied to him. It's her modus operandi!
He's not acquainted with Maddie's bad habit to avoid facing her feelings toward David.
Walter thought she really was over David, and that she truly wanted to raise her baby with his help.
Well, to tell you the truth, I do feel bad for him in the end. He didn't see what hit him! I mean, watch his disheartened expression shortly after he realizes Maddie is not gonna hold anything... Poor Wally!
IMO, he's an OK guy. He was intentioned to make a serious commitment to Maddie.
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Post by italianbluemooner on Jan 6, 2009 21:15:19 GMT -5
It just astounds me that after all the hurt that David's experienced, he put all that anger and hurt, and LOVE into his scheme - if he didn't care anymore he just would have walked away. manitoba, sis! Finally someone who cares for Dave!! Agree 3000% !!
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gorky
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Post by gorky on Jan 6, 2009 21:16:52 GMT -5
Hey, ibm!
I agree. But it does boggle my mind, in a way, that he'd want to marry a woman who admits to loving another man. Maddie does tell him that, despite not being able to stand David, she still wants him; that, sure, he's immature and crude and whatever else, but that's "partly why [she] loves him". Whenever I watch that scene (after I smile a little, because that's such a great line), I do sort of roll my eyes at Walter's bit about the things we want the most being the worst for us. He was definitely trying to convince himself that Maddie was over David. So, though I do think Walter married Maddie believing she wanted him, I think he had to use his imagination to make it true.
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Post by beesnbears on Jan 6, 2009 21:17:08 GMT -5
3. Correct me if I am wrong, but did she actually say to David that the baby was Sam's? He asked about Sam, but she told him Sam was none of his business. My heart just breaks for the both of them in this scene! Know exactly what you mean jpen!! I get misty in the apt. scene too!!
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Post by jpen on Jan 6, 2009 21:17:53 GMT -5
7. What do you believe David's perception of Walter is? Does it remain the same or change?
Well, clearly David is delighted at first that Walter is not, in fact, Sam II. As he tells Bert, he's expecting a "hunk" or a "slab of something"; that Walter is rather meek-looking comes as a relief. Also, it's clear in their first conversation that David assumes that he can "put one over" on good ol' Wally as regards his relationship with Maddie. Walter is so sincere in his assertion that he wants to "forge a relationship" that David assumes he's just clueless.
I think his perception changes, however, at the bachelor party. Walter has a lot more sense and savvy than David (or Maddie, for that matter) has given him credit for, and this comes through in his wry comment about "Have I ever been to a bachelor party for a guy who's already married, given by a guy who knows his wife better than he does?" Also, it's Walter who ends up taking care of Terri in the hospital (and if you listen really closely in that madcap exchange with Terri in the wheelchair, David tells Walter to "get your hands off her" [Terri] because he's usurping David's role as coach).
Walter is a such a good guy...in the same way that Terri is a great gal; in some ways, each of them might be "better" for Maddie and David, respectively, than Maddie and David are for each other. However, you can't fight destiny...or at least, that's what we're supposed to believe--until Season 5 (but I digress...).
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