bees, I too have a hard time with David's cavalier approach to Annie's marriage. This is SO not David. Despite all his wild ways, he has always regarded marriage as sacred. I seem to always go back to the writers (esp. the Season 5 writers!) and their lack of knowledge on what made David Addison tick.
Who is the bad guy...tough question, but a fair one.
Early on, as I mentioned, Dave was blissfully unaware that Annie had a significant other. In past episodes, Dear Old Dave seemed relatively old fashioned in that area. I think if he knew she was hitched then this would not have gone this way at all. However, comma, Annie knew a LOT about Dave so she was dealing from a position of strength.
SOOOOOO, I lay the initial blame on Annie, for leading Dave down this path.
Women are Evil, Men are Pigs. It is as simple as that.
I'm with you, lin--this was pretty excruciating to watch...but on into the fray....
Great Q's, Diane! OK, sorry to deluge you all with a long answer, but I have to run out for awhile...
1. Demi Moore: It's funny...I can't remember watching this episode when it originally ran. Watching it now, it definitely feels like a stunt, if only because Demi and Bruce were such a Hollywood A-list couple for such a long time...but I don't remember how I felt about it at the time. That said, it does set up the feeling of the episode: David is over Maddie--or at least he's looking. The half-smirk he gives Demi when their eyes meet...that's the look he used to give Maddie, when she showed up looking especially gorgeous or did/said something that surprised him. So we can't say we're not warned!
2. The dancing scene...otherwise known as the last bit of ML that I enjoy. It's nice to see them laughing together, and relatively at ease. It's hard to know, though, whether the issue was Maddie's receptiveness, Bert's horrendous timing, or David's seeming indifference.
David says, "Maybe we oughta make it a point to do this more often," and she replies, "No thanks." But then she goes on to say, "Most couples would have murdered each other..." as if they are, or might be, still a couple. And then her comment about the kissing couple: "I envy them." So I think she was still potentially receptive to David--he wasn't throwing much her way, but they might have indulged in a little more flirting if they hadn't been interrupted...
By the way, bees I do agree with you about her attitude beforehand--she's snotty to him, which maybe spurs him on later. Not only will he show her that he's not going to "embarrass" her in front of Annie, he's gonna show her he can sweep Annie off her feet!
3. The Villain: Wow, it's a close call here, but I think I have to give the edge to David here. Annie does a few things that, in my mind, are calculated to peak David's interest (and it's clear from her lunch with Maddie that she knows something about David & Maddie's history): 1. She wears the black dress she picks out for Maddie 2. She accepts the flowers David brings as if they were for her 3. She gives him a sultry glance while he dances with Maddie, and then asks him to dance 4. When he says, "I should take off", she initiates a conversation--and keeps it going 5. Most obviously, she doesn't turn David down OR tell him she's married 6. She dives right in with him physically--there's nary a protest or a thought of Maddie until after she discovers them at the hotel
However, David's attitude toward Maddie is so COLD and hateful, that I really have to label him the Bad Guy. He cuts Maddie off when she tries to talk to him about it, in his office--she's not yelling at him or accusing him, only trying to get him to understand the situation. His comments to Annie are pretty unforgivable: "One thing Maddie Hayes is NOT is a lot of laughs..."--just mean. And then, he's utterly scathing to her when he finds her in his apartment.
Now, in my opinion (and this goes into question 5 a bit), David acts this way because he feels guilty. He knows he's hurt Maddie--he knows that her cousin and close friend should be off-limits, or at least he should "check in" with her before doing anything about it (not that he would, but he should)--and instead of admitting that and apologizing, he goes on the offensive.
Diane commented that the Annie arc was, in part, meant to "make Maddie pay" for her cruelty to David. That makes sense to me, but IMO, this arc would have felt so much more appropriate if it had come after Maddie's 4 1/2 month sojourn in Chicago and marriage to Walter, and being told the baby was not his--the depth of his anger, and his vindictiveness, seem a little misplaced here, particularly after their conversation when they're dancing.
4. Now, all this is not to exonerate Maddie. I definitely think that her pattern of pushing him away, not taking risks, and not listening to her heart have played a huge role in David's attitude and reactions. Must run--more on this later!
Post by manitobadesigner on Dec 2, 2008 20:43:18 GMT -5
3. Ever since the Pals speech, it was obvious that David was not as emotionally invested in Maddie anymore, certainly not like he used to be. I think that yeah, he totally wanted a bit of fun back in his life (since we already know he has no friends!) That part I can understand. But not taking it as far as he did with a member of Maddie's family, that was inexcusable. Perhaps he convinced himself that Maddie wouldn't find out? (and subconsciously hoped she would?)
He just didn't strike me as a man who was so emotionally invested in Maddie, that he'd really do all this to spite her. He jus seemed to me as a guy who was moving on - but with the wrong fish. If this had been any other woman that he had brought by the office (not that they could've done that plotline, they already did it with Sam), it maybe wouldn't have had the same level of anger response from Maddie. Probably hurt and regret, but not anger. So in conclusion, I really think that David was the 'villain'; he was insensitive and hurtful, regardless of the amount of emotional investment he had with Maddie or if he was trying to make her jealous and get her back.
5. Maddie on David’s bed…….well, imo, she really wants to tell him that what he has done has worked. It has gotten her attention and has served as punishment for what she did to him. But, she starts the whole conversation off as a sort of reprimand. Much like the beginning of their night out with Annie and then again in his office the morning after. David was very hostile-like and distant, but I thought he was ready to listen. He sat on his weight machine like he did with Terri and was ready to let her talk. But, the first words out of her mouth was about Annie and she started in on how HE was misbehaving and how HE was going to hurt Annie, etc. Like she was going to scold HIM after all the things she had done. That is why he shut her off. If she could not say what needed to be said…..about how she felt and not about what she thought of his behavior…….then he was not going to let her come into his bedroom and scold him like his mother. (Agnes said, “You can shake a stern finger at him like his mother…” or show him you care and still love him) Again, it does in some way show strength in his character because he is standing up to her and trying to be his own man. And like what Lin212 said, if she had just told him she still loved him and that she was sorry for all of the mixed messages she had sent since after BAYAAHP he probably would have sat there and talked to her even after Annie came in and discovered them.
As this plays on, I am adding the Villain tag on the both of them. SHE started it, but after HE found out she was married he (uncharacteristically) brushed it off. Man, that really really bugs the snot out of me.
Post by italianbluemooner on Dec 2, 2008 20:56:59 GMT -5
3. The BIG question -- who is the villain here.....David or Annie? Why?
Four words,troops: love at first sight.
I mean, it all starts at the office. Look at David's face when he pops in Maddie's office.......... He's intrigued. And A***e looks the same way.
Sometimes love is a chemical reaction..... Put 1 close to 2.... and 3 happens. Don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying David, I'm just saying that every now and then things just happen. For no reason. All of a sudden. Spontaneously.
BUT, speaking of the episode....
1)At the office After lunch....David starts hitting on *A* already!! And what's Maddie's reaction? "Yes, she's a sweetheart". WHAT?? Are you blind, Maddie??? Don't you see what's going on??? OK, let's forgive her: she's drunk.
2) The dance floor The attraction is mutual. He looks at A***e (or better still, x-rays her )... and A***e is there too! And again.... Maddie! Where are you??? Your cousin is stealing your man under your nose!!!!!! You're sober now!!!!
The dance: I agree lin212, he's nuzzling A***e.... but she enjoys that! SHE invites him to do it, SHE gives him the green light. They find each other, because both are dissatisfied with their private life.
3) The L.A. tour D and *A* find common ground, and it's something they've never experienced before. A***e's hubby's a drag, Maddie's hanging back.... *A* is spontaneous, D is spontaneous...... It just clicked, folks!
However, that doesn't mean I like what I'm watching.
Conclusion: there are no villains, IMHO. Speaking of heroes or villains is too simplistic. There are no rules in love, or physical attraction, or whatever you wanna call it....
David was fed up with Maddie, he just couldn't bear the whole situation anymore. He showed her his heart like he had never done before with anyone else... And what's Maddie's reaction? she just tramples on it. She cut him to the heart, and like David says in "And The Flesh Was Made Word", Maddie hurt him in ways she could not even imagine. David is the kind of guy who needs to love, and to be loved back. Maddie rejects his love....So he needs to give it to someone else.
As regards A***e, her husband is the male version of Maddie: he thinks too much and acts too little. *A* is too lively for him. She's too much like David.
David and *A* simply happen to get together. It's a simple twist of fate.
Nevertheless, I'd lie if I told you it wasn't painful watching him with another woman.
Last Edit: Dec 6, 2008 15:57:21 GMT -5 by italianbluemooner
Did anyone else think that it was a HUGE move on Maddie's part to even go over to David's and attempt to have a conversation with him? I mean it has always been David chasing after her when she gives the old "Hayes backside".
She has only done this one time, in MTTC. And that turned out differently, didn't it?!
4. Did Maddie bring this on herself? That David would move on to another target of opportunity? Yes indeed. That this target would be her married cousin? Doubt it.
For many episodes, Maddie had been rejecting any overtures that David made, either directly or indirectly. After a while, even our stalwart hero had to realize that he had his walking papers, and filled them out. He can't carry a torch for blondie his entire life, can he?
I don't think that Maddie expected:
1. Annie to come onto Dave 2. Dave to hit on Annie 3. Annie and Dave to hook up 4. Dave to dismiss the fact that Annie was married
Maddie was pretty clear that she could visualize Dave with another woman, just not Annie. I think she felt both of them would act as adults (not adulterers) and not do as they did.