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Post by MoonBeemer on Dec 16, 2008 19:34:02 GMT -5
Hey Moonbeemer! Interesting avatar of the Bimmer sitting alone at the side of the road. What made you choose that one? (I think it is a COOL picture by the way.) Glad you like - of course what's not to like about this precision machine that kept M&D "safe" and was really an extended member of the ML cast. It is to this fine piece of German craftmanship that my posting name & avatar derive/pay homage (a sort of play off of the Blue Moon moonbeams and bimmer/beemer/beamer/however you spell it).
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Post by maddieaddisonjr on Jan 2, 2009 13:01:00 GMT -5
I know this particular discussion is over, but this is one of those pivotal episodes so I can't resist adding my 2cents late. I have read some of the posts, but not all 9 pages! I'm happy a lot of posting is still going on around here.
1. How do you feel about the appearance of Demi Moore in this episode. Was it just an attention grabbing device to show off the star's significant other...or was it really planned to set the mood for the episode?
Attention grabbing device primarily and I agree with those who said we saw too much of Demi and too much of David/Bruce staring at her. The mood is set though that he's ready for another woman should the opportunity present herself. Here comes...The Cousin. Boo! Hiss!
2. Do you think, if Maddie had been a little more receptive to David when they were dancing, that he would even have looked at Annie twice?
There relationship was so disjointed and negative at this point that I think a little attention from Maddie during a brief dance sadly wouldn't have been enough
3. The BIG question -- who is the villain here.....David or Annie? Why?
David. I'm sorry but in my opinion if you've been involved with someone and you still have unresolved issues and negativity between you, then dating the other's friends and relatives is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Annie isn't pristine here because the same does apply to her, but I think it's clear to her that David and Maddie aren't together and there are not volatile emotional conflicts between her and Maddie so to her David is fair game. I think she is wrong and insensitive but Maddie has expressed her relationship with David as a big 'Oh Well - Never Again' thing so Annie doesn't see dating him as a big deal.
4. Does anyone think Maddie brought the whole situation on herself?
I think both David and Maddie brought this on themselves by being cold and mean to one another. Where did the lighthearted banter Moonlighting go?? This episode was like a night time soap opera.
5. Why does David find Maddie sitting in his bed? Would the conversation have been different if David hadn't been so hostile?
Well, it did put Maddie even more on the offensive/defensive.
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Post by rose35 on Jan 2, 2009 16:25:37 GMT -5
I know this particular discussion is over, but this is one of those pivotal episodes so I can't resist adding my 2cents late. I have read some of the posts, but not all 9 pages! I'm happy a lot of posting is still going on around here. Hey MAJ! Welcome back! I dont think any topic will ever be fully over! So post away on any and all episodes you couldnt join in on before, we all always love to read more thoughts on these episodes , i think thats why we all come here everyday, wanting to read more on a show 20+ years old ,we cant get enough !
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Post by tattybytatty on Apr 6, 2010 12:59:49 GMT -5
Hello, this is my first participation, so do not mind if what I say is not what you find, okay!
Well generally I believe David is in the imagination of most women, after all who did not want a handsome, interesting, enjoyable and not shy about hiding his feelings for a woman as he did for Maddie? For that reason they think a point of view I think the title of villain could be divided among the three, but more for one in particular:
Maddie: She simply could not donate a love like what David had for her, she also failed to see that people have to be different to complement such as yin / yang and David complements the overly controlled behavior of her, he brought joy to her life, so I think that scared her, but instead to face and understand why this fear haunted her she just thought the easiest way would be "let go".
David: I think he did anything to reconnect with Maddie after the elevator (after the loss of the baby), but she always pushed him away, what would he be doing? Crying all the rest of my life, definitely not ... but did not need to be with her cousin Maddie's right! Annie was still for me as a "last attempt" to draw his attention to Maddie. When Maddie went to his house the night it had disarmed him for sure Annie would send away, because if you noticed he did not want Maddie entered the hotel room where he was with Annie, if he really did not care if he does not worry about it.
Annie: This is so for me the greatest villain in the end the woman was married, was staying at the home of Maddie who was his cousin and friend and she knew of the affair between Maddie and David, at least out of respect she should not have been involved as easy with David. [/color] The fanfiction why we are so important ... with them as we get these confusions.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Jan 28, 2012 8:56:11 GMT -5
Another saaaaad episode... designed to pour misery into our blue moon souls! Here I am punishing myself with these eps again - for me, the worst moment (even worse than the get out of my bed quote) was when Agnes gets Maddie to reveal her true feelings - 'you can either sit here and accept the situation, or if you still feel something, let's take food over to D and B on their stake-out and let D know you're still in the game' (well that's more of a sub-text translation)... so when Maddie is faced with Annie at David's sleazy hotel room it's more than a stab in the guts! A bit off track: but with ref to Demi's appearance- these are my fresh thoughts- He was obviously struck by Demi (I agree - symbolic of the fact that he's at a crossroads now) but notice it's at the expense of Annie. He didn't give her two glances in the elevator so it gets me thinking that it just shows how superficial the fling was...she didn't create an impression on him at first glance, not like when destiny (Maddie) walked into his office, revealing that just about anybody would have done in order to show Maddie that he was moving on in a last ditch attempt to get him interested. Now, I know also that these eps were meant to echo the Sam arc (IMHO- I think Partners in Crime fanfic did a better job of that lol *blowing own trumpet*) - but boy did they fail on a huge scale! We only had to watch Maddie with Sam the once, and even then, she was not really with it and distracted by thoughts of David - in this arc we have to watch D all over A and loving it! Grrrr. The bed scene was an achingly awful echo of IACM - almost like the writers were emphasising the hopelessness. Maddie's eyes in that scene haunt me to this day! It's like a grizzly, black parallel universe... Anyway, that's an end to torturing myself with these eps. At the end of the day... reading between all the lines and cold behaviour and fighting (as Bees stressed so well), we all know that they were breaking each other's hearts because that was just it, they still loved each other! I know it, and you know it, we know it...just a shame they didn't until that moon eclipsed. Over and out: BlueMoonShampoo :-) xxx
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 28, 2012 9:04:28 GMT -5
I agree that David was having too much fun with Annie. If they would have shown him doing it to spite Maddie it would have been easier to watch. And that scene in the hotel..eww. And why did David have on pajama pants? Wasn't this a stake out?
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Post by sandra on Jan 28, 2012 16:57:34 GMT -5
But obviously, David was trying to move on (which his pal practically had told him to when she so bluntly refused his suggestion to go dancing more often) - I think he was really trying to move on, and I think his intention was not to hurt Maddie. He was really trying to enjoy his time with Annie (although, naturally, we don't... ) and maybe he talked himself into enjoying it. After all, compared to the always conflict-laden atmosphere between him and Maddie, I think Annie simply was simply fun to be with. But I may be wrong of course, as I have only seen snippets of this episode, like of all of season five.
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witness
3rd Level
"We're quite a pair, aren't we?"
Posts: 857
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Post by witness on Jan 29, 2012 0:08:32 GMT -5
Sidebar...you guys have been talking all along about how Perfetc was supposed to be the S5 ender, giving us hope that they would return from Paris having rediscovered one another in Season 6. I never thought about it chronologically, but the fact that this episode follows Perfetc essentially means the trip to Paris never happened. That was a major plot point they just had to cast aside. Talk about continuity problems!
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Post by diane on Jan 29, 2012 2:36:09 GMT -5
In all of the times I have watched WGC (I'll admit it is not as many as other eps, but the number is still considerable), I never gave a single thought to the fact that David might be moving on.
The elevator scene was merely David being David......and was mostly designed to showcase Demi.
I think the truth comes out when David arrives at Maddie's. He's angry...surly even. The words he and Maddie exchange are snippy. He's pretty fed up, and doing nothing to hide it. He notices Annie, of course, but isn't interested.
When they get to the club, and Maddie and David start to dance, you can see his resistence start to melt away. They talk about "the good old days"...sorta...and David proposes that they do things like this (the dancing) more often. Maddie blows off the suggestion, and also talks about not being sad....then they go into this horrid false speak about how wonderful it is that they survived their relationship.
I think this is where David turns......but I truly believe his plan is to do absolutely anything to shake Maddie out of her acceptance of the situation. He looks around for an available woman...and there is Annie.
Is it horrid? Absolutely.....the worst possible person....which is another reason why I think it was deliberate on David's part. He had to know how badly Maddie would be hurt by him seeing her cousin. He is not insensitive. What I think he is at this point is desperate.
I think the only way I can make it through WGC is to keep telling myself that David was playing a role....and his only purpose was to get Maddie back into his arms.
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goldilocks
3rd Level
You know he is perfect for me...but you and me...we...we..
Posts: 887
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Post by goldilocks on Jan 29, 2012 4:58:43 GMT -5
In all of the times I have watched WGC (I'll admit it is not as many as other eps, but the number is still considerable), I never gave a single thought to the fact that David might be moving on. I think you are right, Diane! David has no intention of moving on. Because if you really want to move on - you don't choose a cousin of your ex girl of your dreams. This is not moving on. And that's what in my opinion betrays David. Had he chosen any other woman I would probably have believed he had an intention to start a new life. But he chose Annie - the girl close to his Maddie. So he can be at least somehow near her. I re-watched this horrid episode yesterday... And that was exactly my thought: David was playing. He would have stopped any time if only Maddie had said him the real reason why she didn't want him to be with her cousin. He was getting more desperate every time she said that the only reason why she didn't want Annie and him be together was her concern about Annie. These two....
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Post by sandra on Jan 29, 2012 5:19:30 GMT -5
Well, like Diane said - he was looking around for a woman, and there was Annie. Hadn't they been there with Annie, it would surely have been anybody else - with her dismissal Maddie practically forced him to at least act if he was moving on; maybe to fool himself, maybe to give her the desperately needed wake-up-call. Maybe I didn't express myself clearly but I think I said he tried to talk himself into enjoying his time with Annie. Of course, in reality, he was far from moving on.
And yes, had Maddie for once been sincere about her real intentions when she showed up at his apartment and not to scared to reveal them, the last thing he'd have done was speeding after Annie... JMO, of course.
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Jan 29, 2012 9:46:17 GMT -5
Aw Diane - it was lovely to read your positive spin on these eps: I really should learn to view them like a glass half full instead of empty. I think it's the fan of tragic love stories in me...maybe it's the fact that my own parents divorced, maybe, maybe... I just can't get it out of my head that he was moving on but I want to believe your theory Diane, I really do...so please may I adopt it for myself? LOL. I like this so much more!
Oh and Witness...yes I'd be interested to know exactly when they knew they were going to be cancelled. I guess they must have been threatened with it and that's why they tried to man the life boats with the Annie Arc - trying desperately to fan the embers and create a blaze again...but it didn't work because they already felt defeated, sad, tired- and that is reflected throughout this series of episodes (probs with B and C - didn't B only have a 5 year contract?). I still don't get why Perfetc was meant to end show though as they were NEVER ahead of themselves, so I don't get how they'd have filmed that and then made the proceeding 4 episodes? I'm probably being slow...
Just for the record: they were both stubborn in these last eps. They Both needed to share their true feelings for once and stop talking in codes lol... No wonder Agnes got cross with them. x
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Post by diane on Jan 29, 2012 11:55:22 GMT -5
Nancy, I wish I had a dollar for every hour of research I have done, trying to find out when it really became known that the show was cancelled.
I mean, it seems understood that the handwriting was on the wall.....but I can't pin it down. Maybe we should try and contact some of the 5th season writers....(boo, hiss)...and see if they have any recollection. Of course, after all the things we have said about them, who knows if they would even speak to us.
I did ask Jon and Dan, the guys who played Jergenson and O'Neill. Their recollection was that they knew the show was in trouble when the craft services tables became almost spartan. Haha!
Guess like everything else, the whole thing comes down to money!
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Post by bluemoonshampoo on Jan 29, 2012 12:10:40 GMT -5
That sounds like a project challenge... time to track down those pesky writers and get asking some nitty gritty questions. Maybe some of them are on twitter? Then they need never know how we feel about them haha xxx
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Post by iluvdavid on Jan 29, 2012 12:28:59 GMT -5
Debra Frank is my Facebook friend. We should start with her but she'd probably block me lol. I would love to talk to Roger Director.
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